Lex Fridman Podcast

Podbit · Lex Fridman Podcast

#483 – Julia Shaw: Criminal Psychology of Murder, Serial Killers, Memory & Sex

Explore episode Oct 14, 2025
Science
Aphantasia: The People Who See Nothing When They Close Their Eyes

#483 – Julia Shaw: Criminal Psychology of Murder, Serial Ki… · Oct 14, 2025 Science

Close your eyes and picture a red apple. Most people see something. Julia Shaw sees black. She has aphantasia — the inability to form mental images — and only recently discovered it. It explains why memory palace techniques never worked for her, and may be more common among analytically-minded people than anyone realizes.

Where this was said

False memories

At 2:23:15 · chapter starts 1:39:04

This is the episode's intellectual climax. Shaw's PhD research combined two previously separate fields: Elizabeth Loftus's false memory work and Saul Kassin's false confession research. The question: can you make someone believe they committed a crime that never happened? The methodology was painstaking — years to get through ethics — and involved selecting participants who had never experienced the target events (assaulting someone with a weapon, stealing, hitting someone), obtaining parental confirmation, building rapport with a true memory first, then introducing the false memory through guided imagination ('close your eyes and picture being 14, the police called your parents...'). Social reinforcement ('good job') was applied every time a participant generated a detail. The first participant said 'I remember a blue sky' and Shaw was grinning next to her supervisor because she knew it was working. Within three sessions, 70% of participants had developed complex false memories complete with specific people, places, and feelings — drawn from real elements of their lives but woven into events that never occurred. Shaw is careful about what the 70% means: it doesn't mean 70% of all people can have false memories implanted; it means the phenomenon is real, possible, and alarmingly easy. She connects this to current concerns about AI — GenAI's conversational structure mirrors the exact conditions of a leading interrogation, making it potentially the most powerful false memory machine ever built.

Technology
GenAI Is a False Memory Machine

#483 – Julia Shaw: Criminal Psychology of Murder, Serial Ki… · Oct 14, 2025 Technology

Generative AI systems are structured as social conversations — the same format that Shaw has spent decades studying for its power to distort memory. When AI tells you what you want to hear, it's running the same psychological playbook as a leading police interrogation. The result is a machine that quietly rewrites your sense of reality.

Science
The False Memory Experiment: 70% Confess to Crimes They Never Committed

#483 – Julia Shaw: Criminal Psychology of Murder, Serial Ki… · Oct 14, 2025 Science

In just three interview sessions, Julia Shaw convinced 70% of participants they had assaulted someone or committed a crime as a teenager — events that never happened. The method used nothing more than leading questions, social reinforcement, and guided imagination. This is how innocent people end up in prison.

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