Newspaper industry: $82B to $12B
Between 2015 and 2019, the US newspaper industry shrank from roughly $82 billion to $12 billion per year — less than the frozen yogurt industry.
Snapshot · The Louis Theroux Podcast
S8 EP3: Andrew Callaghan on the ‘cancelverse’, lizard people, and whether he’s being sued by Melania Trump
Explore episode
Jun 22, 2026
Where this was said
Shop Talk: The Art of the Interview
At 7:45 · chapter starts 4:03
This opening exchange is a rare piece of craft television: two practitioners of the same dark art swapping notes on what actually works. Callaghan names the signature technique he absorbed from studying Theroux's documentaries — the barely perceptible 'toddler nod' that signals patience without affirmation, keeping subjects talking well past the point they think they've answered [1] — Andrew Callaghan "The best interview technique isn't a question — it's a barely perceptible head movement. Callaghan calls it the 'toddler nod,' a micro-affi…" 04:03 . Theroux responds by explaining his own technique of manufacturing a false sense that the formal interview has ended — prompting the cameraman to pull back for wide shots, dropping his voice, asking 'Was that okay?' — causing subjects to relax and deliver their most honest moments. Both men reflect on the idea that interview subjects always perform a version of themselves, and that the goal is to get outside the performance. It's generous, frank, and funny shop talk that sets the tone for a conversation between two people who genuinely respect each other's approach.
The Toddler Nod: Andrew Callaghan on the Art of the Interview
The best interview technique isn't a question — it's a barely perceptible head movement. Callaghan calls it the 'toddler nod,' a micro-affirmation he learned from Louis Theroux that signals patience without praise, coaxing subjects past their rehearsed answers into the real stuff.
The Newspaper Industry's Collapse Forced a New Generation Online
By the time Andrew Callaghan graduated in 2019, the US newspaper industry had shrunk from $82 billion to $12 billion — less than the frozen yogurt sector. That collapse didn't create a war between independent and mainstream media; it just slammed the door on an entire generation of journalists who had to find another way in.
CNN, HBO, and the Press Tour from Hell
Booked on CNN to promote his HBO film, Callaghan was immediately asked to dish on Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio — someone he was still actively covering. He pivoted, named CNN as complicit in divisive media, and was pulled from every remaining press appearance by Time Warner's C-suite within the hour.
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