The Miami Heat finished 10th in the Eastern Conference in the season prior to trading for Giannis.
Giannis to Miami! An Urgent Gathering Pod With Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier
Miami landed Giannis without giving up Bam Adebayo, but the hosts say the Heat finished 10th last year and are miles behind the Knicks and Celtics — this is a Hail Mary, not a title contender.
Jun 23, 2026
51:47
Difficulty: Beginner
Played
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Giannis to Miami! An Urgent Gathering Pod With Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier
Miami landed Giannis without giving up Bam Adebayo, but the hosts say the Heat finished 10th last year and are miles behind the Knicks and Celtics — this is a Hail Mary, not a title contender.
Jun 23, 2026
51:47
Difficulty: Beginner
Played
TL;DR
Giannis Antetokounmpo is headed to Miami in a blockbuster deal that sent Tyler Herro, Khalil Ware, Hakim Shayok, the 13th pick, and future assets to Milwaukee — everything except Bam Adebayo [1] — Bill Simmons "Miami gave up everything except Bam Adebayo — Herro, Ware, Shayok, the 13th pick, two unprotected firsts, and a swap — for a player who has…" 01:15 . Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Justin Verrier break down whether the Heat can compete with a thin roster [2] — Justin Verrier "While the Knicks run high-octane offense, Miami can build an identity as a bruising defensive team from day one. The Bam-Giannis-Wiggins-Mi…" 04:25 , why the Celtics stood firm on a Jaylen Brown offer, and what Jaylen's future in Boston looks like [3] — Bill Simmons "Boston's offer was Jaylen Brown plus a couple of picks, and they never moved. Jalen was second-team All-NBA, younger and more durable than …" 14:13 . Key takeaway: Miami bought relevance, not a championship contender — yet.
#NBA trade deadline
#Giannis trade
#Miami Heat contention
#Jaylen Brown trade rumors
#Milwaukee Bucks rebuild
#2026 NBA Draft
#Eastern Conference parity
#Pat Riley legacy
#Brad Stevens decision-making
#NBA title odds
#Giannis Antetokounmpo
#Miami Heat
#Milwaukee Bucks
#Jaylen Brown
#Boston Celtics
#NBA trade
#Pat Riley
#Bam Adebayo
#Tyler Herro
#Brad Stevens
#Eastern Conference
#title odds
#rebuild
#NBA parity
Bill Simmons reacts to the Giannis Antetokounmpo trade to Miami with Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier, analyzing the Heat's depleted roster, the Celtics' decision to hold firm on their Jaylen Brown offer, and Jaylen's uncertain future in Boston.
Chapter list
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The episode opens with back-to-back sponsor reads for PNC Bank and PayPal before Bill Simmons introduces the premise: he just pulled his dog out of the bathtub, took out his contacts, and suddenly Giannis Antetokounmpo was a Miami Heat player. Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier are summoned for what Simmons refuses to call an emergency podcast — the trade, he notes, has been coming for 307 days. The casual, slightly-after-dinner energy sets a loose and funny tone for a conversation about one of the biggest NBA trades in years.
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Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Justin Verrier tear apart the trade piece by piece. Milwaukee received Tyler Herro, Khalil Ware, Hakim Shayok, the 13th pick, and future unprotected first-rounders — everything Miami had except Bam Adebayo. Verrier argues the package gives Milwaukee flexibility over a definitive star, while Simmons notes Bucks ownership was split: the front office preferred picks while owners wanted the certainty of Jaylen Brown. [1] — Chris Ryan "Chris Ryan invoked Giannis's own quote about being worried what kind of team he'd be walking into after a trade. The answer: probably not b…" 03:56 Chris Ryan raises the most uncomfortable question: is Giannis joining a better team? The Heat finished 10th in the East last year, and their new core of Bam, Giannis, Wiggins, and Davion Mitchell gives them a defensive identity but little else. Simmons frames Miami's move as a Hail Mary from a franchise that had no other options, while also crediting Pat Riley for still having the gravitational pull to land a top-25-all-time player. Verrier adds that the league is simply better with Miami as a villain, and Giannis returning to a competitive environment — however imperfect — is good for the sport.
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Simmons revisits his tweet insisting Hugo Olmstead wasn't genuinely included in Boston's trade offer for Giannis, drawing the parallel to how the Celtics once protected a raw Rajon Rondo in the Kevin Garnett trade — a move that looked right in hindsight. [1] — Bill Simmons "Bill Simmons declared he never believed Hugo Olmstead was included in any honest Boston offer, comparing it to the Rondo-for-KG trade where…" 41:16 At 20 years old and described as an asset even comparable to Khalil Ware, Hugo was simply not on the table. The conversation drifts into the 2026 NBA Draft: Simmons is live-streaming after the Boston pick, will be on Netflix, and is bullish on the draft being one of the better ones in recent memory. Verrier has talked himself into Boozer going early to Utah, though it seems to be cooling. Chris Ryan briefly assesses the Sixers ('Embiid availability dependent') and Portland's El Cheapo new owner, Tom Dundon, whose universal unpopularity among players and staff somehow makes the hosts think he'll do something splashy before the offseason ends.
- Second apron
- A luxury tax threshold in the NBA's collective bargaining agreement above which teams face severe restrictions on trades and roster moves.
- Trade exception
- A bookkeeping tool in the NBA allowing a team to absorb a player's salary in a future trade without sending matching salary back; created when a player leaves via trade without a direct match.
- Hail Mary
- A desperate, low-probability move made out of necessity — here used to describe Miami trading most of their roster for a shot at relevance with Giannis.
- Poo-poo platter
- Bill Simmons's term for a trade package assembled from miscellaneous, low-value assets rather than a single star player or high draft pick.
- Disease of more
- A phrase coined by Pat Riley describing how championship teams fracture when players start prioritizing individual glory over team success after winning a title.
- Lottery balls
- NBA parlance for draft lottery odds; a team with more losses accumulates more 'balls' in the weighted lottery for top picks.
- Untouchable
- An NBA trade negotiation term for a player a team refuses to include in any deal, often a prized young prospect.
- PCR
- Used loosely by Bill Simmons to describe a vague, unresolved situation — borrowed from the medical term for a diagnostic test, implying something is being 'tested' without a clear result.
- Flattened lottery odds
- Refers to the NBA's current lottery system that equalizes odds among the bottom teams, reducing the advantage of being the worst team.
- Second team All-NBA
- One of two annual All-NBA team designations (alongside First and Third teams) recognizing the best players at each position in the league each season.
- Soft tissue injury
- An injury to muscles, ligaments, or tendons — as opposed to bone fractures — often linked to overuse and high athletic load; discussed in the context of Giannis's injury history.
- Amputate
- Used metaphorically by Chris Ryan to describe a decisive, painful roster move — cutting a franchise cornerstone — rather than making incremental, ineffective changes.
- Zombie Heat
- Bill Simmons's nickname for the Miami Heat's tendency to rise from irrelevance and acquire marquee stars when conventional wisdom says they can't.
- Hegemonic
- Describing dominant, ruling influence — implicitly referenced when discussing the Knicks and Celtics as the presumptive powers in the Eastern Conference.
Chapter 2 · 01:15
Heat trade for Giannis
Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Justin Verrier tear apart the trade piece by piece. Milwaukee received Tyler Herro, Khalil Ware, Hakim Shayok, the 13th pick, and future unprotected first-rounders — everything Miami had except Bam Adebayo. Verrier argues the package gives Milwaukee flexibility over a definitive star, while Simmons notes Bucks ownership was split: the front office preferred picks while owners wanted the certainty of Jaylen Brown. [1] — Chris Ryan "Chris Ryan invoked Giannis's own quote about being worried what kind of team he'd be walking into after a trade. The answer: probably not b…" 03:56 Chris Ryan raises the most uncomfortable question: is Giannis joining a better team? The Heat finished 10th in the East last year, and their new core of Bam, Giannis, Wiggins, and Davion Mitchell gives them a defensive identity but little else. Simmons frames Miami's move as a Hail Mary from a franchise that had no other options, while also crediting Pat Riley for still having the gravitational pull to land a top-25-all-time player. Verrier adds that the league is simply better with Miami as a villain, and Giannis returning to a competitive environment — however imperfect — is good for the sport.
Claims made here
Miami's 2019 Jimmy Butler acquisition involved convincing Portland to take Hassan Whiteside in a trade.
Averaging a 20-10 stat line after your 14th NBA season is historically extremely rare.
Pat Riley will be 84 years old when Miami's 2030 pick swap from the Giannis trade comes into play.
The Miami Giannis Trade Breakdown
Miami gave up everything except Bam Adebayo — Herro, Ware, Shayok, the 13th pick, two unprotected firsts, and a swap — for a player who hasn't been on a winning team in years. The Bucks got a patchwork of pieces from a 43-win team and some picks starting four years out.
Miami gave up everything except Bam
Miami surrendered Tyler Herro, Khalil Ware, Hakim Shayok, the 13th pick, plus future unprotected picks and a swap — essentially their entire non-Bam roster.
Is Giannis Actually Better Off in Miami?
Chris Ryan invoked Giannis's own quote about being worried what kind of team he'd be walking into after a trade. The answer: probably not better than Milwaukee. Bam is a great teammate, but this Heat roster isn't a title contender from day one.
Miami's Identity: Physical, Defensive, and Dangerous
While the Knicks run high-octane offense, Miami can build an identity as a bruising defensive team from day one. The Bam-Giannis-Wiggins-Mitchell core is built to ugly up games and contrast every offense-first contender in the East.
Front Offices Trade for Job Security
Milwaukee's front office preferred Miami's scattered package over a straight Jaylen Brown deal, and Bill Simmons explains exactly why: picks and young pieces give a front office years of cover. Jaylen comes with expectations and accountability. Front offices love trades that let them say 'we're rebuilding' for half a decade.
Bucks-Celtics trade talks: Milwaukee split on offers
Milwaukee's front office reportedly preferred Miami's package while ownership was divided over simply acquiring Jaylen Brown as a known, tradeable asset.
You Needed to Amputate
The Giannis era was slowly killing the Bucks franchise. Not a bad season — a slow, paralyzing death. Chris Ryan argues this wasn't a hard negotiation; it was a medical necessity. Get a new coach, start the clock at zero, and see what Tyler Herro becoming a homecoming hero looks like.
Data point
10th
Before the Giannis trade, the Miami Heat finished 10th in the Eastern Conference, miles behind the Knicks, Celtics, Cavs, and others.
Giannis was 3rd MVP 2 years ago
Bill Simmons reminded listeners that Giannis earned a top-3 MVP finish just two years before the trade, though he cautioned about his recent playoff track record.
Giannis averaging 20-10 after 14th season: rare
Bill Simmons noted that historical data shows averaging a 20-10 after your 14th NBA season is extraordinarily rare, signaling Giannis's best years may be behind him.
Data point
84
Bill Simmons joked that Pat Riley will be 84 years old when Miami's 2030 pick swap comes into play, highlighting the age of Miami's front office leadership.
Chapter 3 · 13:26
Why didn't the Giannis trade work for the Celtics?
Simmons revisits his tweet insisting Hugo Olmstead wasn't genuinely included in Boston's trade offer for Giannis, drawing the parallel to how the Celtics once protected a raw Rajon Rondo in the Kevin Garnett trade — a move that looked right in hindsight. [1] — Bill Simmons "Bill Simmons declared he never believed Hugo Olmstead was included in any honest Boston offer, comparing it to the Rondo-for-KG trade where…" 41:16 At 20 years old and described as an asset even comparable to Khalil Ware, Hugo was simply not on the table. The conversation drifts into the 2026 NBA Draft: Simmons is live-streaming after the Boston pick, will be on Netflix, and is bullish on the draft being one of the better ones in recent memory. Verrier has talked himself into Boozer going early to Utah, though it seems to be cooling. Chris Ryan briefly assesses the Sixers ('Embiid availability dependent') and Portland's El Cheapo new owner, Tom Dundon, whose universal unpopularity among players and staff somehow makes the hosts think he'll do something splashy before the offseason ends.
Claims made here
Jaylen Brown was second-team All-NBA last season and is younger and more durable than Giannis Antetokounmpo.
Brad Stevens cited a 3-11 record against top-3 seeds in his postseason press conference to justify needing a roster upgrade.
Minnesota Timberwolves opened up a $33 million trade exception after the Randle trade.
Only 11 NBA players in history have played 125+ playoff games and averaged 19+ points per game.
The Boston Celtics went 56-23 after starting the season 0-3.
In the 2012 Eastern Conference Finals, the Boston Celtics played Mikel Pietrus, Brandon Bass, and Greg Stiemsma 30-35 minutes per game — players who would not make NBA rosters today.
FanDuel set Miami Heat championship odds at 20-to-1 after the Giannis trade, with the Celtics at 6-to-1 and the Knicks at +750.
Amari Williams reportedly grew three inches and now stands at 7'2".
Why Boston Didn't Blink on the Celtics Offer
Boston's offer was Jaylen Brown plus a couple of picks, and they never moved. Jalen was second-team All-NBA, younger and more durable than Giannis, and the Celtics simply weren't desperate enough to sweeten the deal. Brad Stevens held the line, and Milwaukee took Miami's Hail Mary instead.
Data point
3-11
Brad Stevens cited a 3-11 record against top-3 seeds in his postseason press conference as justification for needing a major roster upgrade, though Justin Verrier pushed back on the framing.
Jaylen Brown's Future in Boston: 50/50
Bill Simmons puts Jaylen Brown's odds of returning to Boston at 50/50. The small grievances have stacked up — the Twitch streams, the media spats, the 'this was my best year' quote. No smoking gun, just a thousand paper cuts. Something has clearly shifted.
Jaylen Brown drafted 10 years ago
Bill Simmons noted the Celtics drafted Jaylen Brown roughly 10 years prior to the trade talks, emphasizing the deep loyalty Boston fans feel toward him.
Data point
11 players
Only 11 players in NBA history have played 125+ playoff games while averaging 19 points. The other 10 are LeBron, Duncan, Kawhi, Wade, Magic, Larry Bird, Kobe, Tatum, Worthy, and Klay Thompson. Jaylen Brown belongs in that conversation, and he's still getting better.
Data point
11
Only 11 players in NBA history have played 125+ playoff games and averaged 19+ points, a club that includes Jaylen Brown alongside LeBron, Duncan, Kobe, and Magic.
The Pat Riley Disease of More
Pat Riley coined 'the disease of more' for teams that win titles and then fracture over individual ambitions. Bill Simmons says Jaylen Brown has now contracted it too. He proved he could lead a 56-win team, and now 'what else do I want to prove' is the question eating at him.
Data point
56-23
After starting the season 0-3, the Celtics went 56-23 the rest of the way, proving Jaylen Brown can anchor a winning team as the primary star.
The 2012 Celtics Had Players Who Wouldn't Make Rosters Now
The 2012 Eastern Conference Finals had the Celtics playing Mikel Pietrus, Brandon Bass, and Greg Stiemsma 30-35 minutes a night — players who couldn't crack an NBA roster today. Finding depth for Miami in 2027 is a fundamentally harder task than it was 15 years ago.
Data point
20-to-1
FanDuel installed the newly-Giannis'd Miami Heat at 20-to-1 for the championship — behind the Celtics at 6-to-1, the Knicks at +750, and even Detroit at 25-to-1 feels close. Vegas liked the trade, but didn't love it. Relevance was purchased; a title was not.
Data point
20-1
Per FanDuel, the Miami Heat opened at 20-to-1 title odds after the Giannis trade, well behind the Celtics at 6-to-1 and Knicks at +750.
The Hugo Olmstead Question: Boston's Untouchable
Bill Simmons declared he never believed Hugo Olmstead was included in any honest Boston offer, comparing it to the Rondo-for-KG trade where they made Rondo untouchable. At 20 years old, Hugo is the kind of asset teams protect even when trading a star — and Boston held firm.
Data point
7'2"
Justin Verrier mentioned reports that Celtics backup center Amari Williams grew three inches and now stands 7'2", a notable developmental story.
No indexed bits in this chapter.
Show stoppers
Data point
11 players
Only 11 players in NBA history have played 125+ playoff games while averaging 19 points. The other 10 are LeBron, Duncan, Kawhi, Wade, Magic, Larry Bird, Kobe, Tatum, Worthy, and Klay Thompson. Jaylen Brown belongs in that conversation, and he's still getting better.
Front Offices Trade for Job Security
Milwaukee's front office preferred Miami's scattered package over a straight Jaylen Brown deal, and Bill Simmons explains exactly why: picks and young pieces give a front office years of cover. Jaylen comes with expectations and accountability. Front offices love trades that let them say 'we're rebuilding' for half a decade.
Jaylen Brown's Future in Boston: 50/50
Bill Simmons puts Jaylen Brown's odds of returning to Boston at 50/50. The small grievances have stacked up — the Twitch streams, the media spats, the 'this was my best year' quote. No smoking gun, just a thousand paper cuts. Something has clearly shifted.
Snapshots ()
Key Quotes ()
This episode
Cast
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The subject of the entire episode — traded from the Milwaukee Bucks to the Miami Heat in a blockbuster deal.
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Boston's trade chip in the Giannis sweepstakes; discussed extensively regarding his future with the Celtics.
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The Miami Heat's anchor who was explicitly excluded from the Giannis trade, discussed as the cornerstone of their new core.
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Boston's primary star who is recovering from a torn Achilles; discussed as the reason the Celtics need to remain contenders.
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Miami Heat president discussed as the possible driving force behind the Giannis trade and as an aging executive taking a 'last shot at glory'.
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Boston Celtics president who publicly cited the team's 3-11 record against top seeds; discussed as the architect of their Giannis negotiating stance.
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Included in the Giannis trade to Milwaukee; discussed as part of Miami's new defensive core alongside Bam and Giannis.
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Included in Miami's trade package to Milwaukee; Chris Ryan described him as 'coming home' to Milwaukee.
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Miami Heat head coach; discussed as a possible internal driver of the Giannis pursuit and as someone who would embrace a defensive identity.
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Milwaukee Bucks owner discussed as the driving force behind choosing the Giannis trade deadline and pushing through the Miami deal.
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The team that acquired Giannis by trading most of their non-Bam roster; discussed as a new Eastern Conference contender.
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The team that declined to enhance their Giannis offer beyond Jaylen Brown and picks; discussed for their roster outlook.
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The team that traded Giannis; analyzed for what they received and their prospects as a rebuilding franchise.
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Discussed as the presumptive Eastern Conference favorites after winning the NBA title, and as a contrast to Miami's defensive identity.
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Sports betting platform whose post-trade title odds were cited to assess how Vegas valued the Giannis-to-Miami move.
Stats
This episode
Claims & Sources
1 / 12 cited (8%)
Factual claims made this episode, and whether a source was named.
Only 11 NBA players in history have played 125+ playoff games and averaged 19+ points per game.
Averaging a 20-10 stat line after your 14th NBA season is historically extremely rare.
The Boston Celtics went 56-23 after starting the season 0-3.
Brad Stevens cited a 3-11 record against top-3 seeds in his postseason press conference to justify needing a roster upgrade.
The Miami Heat finished 10th in the Eastern Conference in the season prior to trading for Giannis.
FanDuel set Miami Heat championship odds at 20-to-1 after the Giannis trade, with the Celtics at 6-to-1 and the Knicks at +750.
Amari Williams reportedly grew three inches and now stands at 7'2".
Pat Riley will be 84 years old when Miami's 2030 pick swap from the Giannis trade comes into play.
Miami's 2019 Jimmy Butler acquisition involved convincing Portland to take Hassan Whiteside in a trade.
In the 2012 Eastern Conference Finals, the Boston Celtics played Mikel Pietrus, Brandon Bass, and Greg Stiemsma 30-35 minutes per game — players who would not make NBA rosters today.
Jaylen Brown was second-team All-NBA last season and is younger and more durable than Giannis Antetokounmpo.
Minnesota Timberwolves opened up a $33 million trade exception after the Randle trade.
