Snapchat's Friendship Report found that people routinely underestimate how much others like them — and simply assuming you'll be accepted makes you more open, more positive, and far more likely to actually make friends.
The Moth
Snapchat's Friendship Report found that people routinely underestimate how much others like them — and simply assuming you'll be accepted makes you more open, more positive, and far more likely to actually make friends.
TL;DR
Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey of Office Ladies host a Best Friends Day special exploring what makes friendships last — from childhood bonds to work proximity sparking lifelong sisterhood. They share listener letters, discuss friendship science (the "liking gap," Snapchat's Friendship Report), debate the best friendship movies, and reflect on their own origin story [1] — Angela Kinsey "Angela Kinsey revealed that the movie she and Jenna went to see together on a BFF date — Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, directed by the…" 37:20 . The episode culminates in a raw, moving speech from producer Sam Kiefer about sobriety, loneliness, and how the Office Ladies team literally changed his life [2] — Sam Kiefer "There's a phrase that I hate from years of working in food service, and that phrase is, 'We are a family.' Normally when you hear that, som…" 1:08:40 . The single most useful takeaway: real friendship takes deliberate effort, not just organic luck.
Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey host a Best Friends Day special episode of Office Ladies, sharing listener letters, friendship science, favorite BFF movies, personal stories, and a heartfelt on-air letter from producer Sam Kiefer about sobriety and gratitude.
The episode kicks off with Moth storytelling instructor Chazz Giovani announcing a free summer workshop for students, open until July 3rd, with applications at themoth.org/edu. This is followed by two advertisement segments: one for Monarch, a personal finance app offering 50% off the first year with code Moth, and one for Children's Miracle Network, which raises funds for 170 children's hospitals across the US and Canada. No guest content appears in this segment.
The Moth's host introduces the episode by noting that while the show usually focuses on big pivots and grand adventures, the most transformative elements of life are often the people we share it with — the ones who know our coffee orders and our childhood secrets. The host explains that this episode is borrowed from Office Ladies, and that Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey — who played characters who were not best friends on screen — built a genuine lifelong bond off camera. Listeners are invited to stay for stories from Jenna and Angela.
Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey open the show with their familiar intro — noting they were on The Office together, are best friends, and run the ultimate Office lovers podcast. They declare this a 'really special episode' in honor of Best Friends Day on June 8th, explaining that they invited listeners to write in about their best friends and received wonderfully heartwarming submissions. The tone is warm, celebratory, and clearly personal from the start.
Jenna Fischer delights in the discovery that there are actually two Best Friend Days — National (June 8th, created by U.S. Congress in 1935) and International (July 30th, declared by the United Nations in 2011) [1] — Jenna Fischer "National Best Friends Day est. 1935: The U.S. Congress established National Best Friends Day on June 8th in 1935 to honor friendship bonds …" 05:05 . Congress chose June 8th for its reliably pleasant weather, wanting people to get outside with their friends. The UN's version focuses on friendship as a vehicle for global peace and understanding. Jenna closes the segment by mentioning the New York Public Library's list of 15 friendship novels, offering to link it in stories for listeners who want reading recommendations.
Angela Kinsey presents an online ranked list of the 10 best Office friendships, working from Erin and Phyllis at number 10 all the way to the surprise number one: Jim and Dwight [1] — Angela Kinsey "Online consensus places Jim and Dwight as the number one friendship on The Office, above Michael and Dwight. Angela and Jenna push back and…" 07:30 . The group debates the pick — Jim called Dwight his best friend in a moment of realization — but both Jenna and Angela push back on significant omissions, naming Pam and Michael, Andy and Darryl, and the genuine Angela/Oscar bond as friendships that deserved spots. The segment doubles as a warmhearted taxonomy of all the different kinds of friendship the show depicts, from frenemies to unlikely bonds.
Jenna reads from Allison S. in Edmonton, Canada, whose best friend Lauren was initially resented for being given the dance teaching classes Allison wanted. Over time, Lauren's charm broke through the rivalry — and the friendship was sealed when they box-dyed each other's hair in a bathtub and ended up with splotchy results for weeks [1] — Jenna Fischer "A listener named Allison from Edmonton met her best friend Lauren when Lauren was hired as a dance teacher and given the classes Allison wa…" 09:48 . A Disney World work trip sharing a bed cemented things. Allison notes she was chosen as the photographer at Lauren's small family wedding despite having zero photography experience. The letter directly parallels the Jenna/Angela origin story and sets up a BuzzFeed quiz segment that follows.
Angela leads the group through a BuzzFeed quiz asking who would be your best friend at Dunder Mifflin. The live quiz creates revealing and funny moments — all three non-Jenna members describe themselves as 'the glue,' while Jenna declares herself 'the queen.' Career dream answers include three athletes and one entrepreneur (Jenna). The results: Sam is matched with Pam, Cassie with Michael (because they'd meet at an improv class they both failed), Angela with Jim (despite hating pranks), and Jenna with Jan — which she happily accepts. The segment is light and fun before transitioning into Jenna's more personal cancer survivor announcement.
Jenna Fischer transitions the episode into deeply personal territory, announcing she appears on the cover of USA Today and MediaPlanet's Future of Cancer Care campaign magazine in honor of National Cancer Survivors Day [1] — Jenna Fischer "Jenna Fischer candidly shares that after her chemotherapy port was removed, she's developed an unexpected emotional reaction to the scar — …" 16:07 . She explains she used a photo taken before her port removal — one that shows the port's visible bump under her skin — because it felt important to document that chapter of her journey. She then shares that the port scar, unlike her other surgical scars, genuinely bothers her; she sees it every time she gets out of the shower, and she's still trying to frame it as a 'battle scar' [1] — Jenna Fischer "Jenna Fischer candidly shares that after her chemotherapy port was removed, she's developed an unexpected emotional reaction to the scar — …" 16:07 . Angela interjects with the story of how she refused to let Jenna postpone the port removal while her husband Lee was filming in Oklahoma — coordinating the hospital trip and arranging other moms to care for Jenna's kids overnight [2] — Jenna Fischer "When Jenna's husband was filming in Oklahoma and she needed her chemo port removed, she was prepared to delay the procedure for two months.…" 18:30 . The segment is a microcosm of everything the episode is about: friendship as practical love.
The mid-episode ad break covers three sponsors: Smile Generation, which promotes awareness of the mouth-body health connection and invites listeners to find a provider at smilegeneration.com/moth; Wayfair, promoting its wide range of home decor options and fast shipping at wayfair.com; and Brightside Health, an online therapy and psychiatry service offering flexible scheduling and medication management at brightside.com.
Angela Kinsey introduces the episode's first-best-friend segment by describing Corinza, who she met in Indonesia before she could even remember — their mothers played tennis together, and there is no childhood memory from that era without her [1] — Angela Kinsey "Angela Kinsey met her first best friend Corinza as a toddler in Indonesia, where their mothers played tennis together. There is not a singl…" 24:41 . Corinza is now a middle school librarian in Austin and they still text regularly. Two listener letters follow: Alana D. from Pittsburgh whose childhood friend Cassie flew in to support her on her breast cancer diagnosis day and mastectomy recovery; and Carly B. from Newark, Texas, whose best friend London has her husband saving his wife's caller ID as 'light of my wife' and who smears food on her own clothing whenever Carly spills on herself in solidarity. Both letters underscore that great friendships survive relocation and life upheaval.
Jenna Fischer opens her childhood friendship story with Beth, a cul-de-sac neighbor she was inseparable from until Beth's family moved suddenly, leaving Jenna without a close friend for years. Then came Lauren from school — another inseparable bond broken by a move, this time in middle school, leaving Jenna devastated enough that her mom arranged a solo trip to visit Lauren in Boston. In high school and college, Jenna made close friends who she still knows, but she describes having 'gone through periods without a true tell-you-everything best friend' [1] — Jenna Fischer "Jenna Fischer had two childhood best friends — Beth and Lauren — both of whom moved away suddenly, leaving her without a close friend for y…" 29:54 . She credits Angela as the one who finally stayed, and Angela responds that their friendship is the product of being in charge of their own lives as adults — able to maintain contact on their own terms. The team shares their own childhood friend memories: producer Cassie bonded with Amber over a canyon and animals, and Sam knew Jared from Watertown, Wisconsin until Jared entered the military post-9/11.
Jenna Fischer shares a letter from Becca M. in Edmonds, Washington, who met her best friend Lisa in college and has been inseparable for 15 years. The two bonded over The Office from day one — watching episodes together, fangirling over Jim and Pam, and aspiring to the 'couples goals' of Phyllis and Bob Vance. For Becca's bachelorette party, Lisa rented an Airbnb and decorated it with an Office theme: half-blown-up balloons, a 'That's what she said' fake tattoo, and a Prison Mike face tattoo. The letter ends with Becca saying she hopes everyone has their own Lisa, and that listening to Office Ladies feels like eavesdropping on her own friendship. Angela adds that Office-themed baby showers, bachelorettes, and birthdays delight her endlessly, and reveals that she and Jenna made Sam and Cassie office-themed birthday cards with their faces on the party planning committee characters.
Angela reveals that Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants — which she and Jenna saw together on a BFF date — is on the top friendship movie lists and is celebrating its 20th anniversary, prompting a suggestion of an outdoor screening together [1] — Angela Kinsey "Angela Kinsey revealed that the movie she and Jenna went to see together on a BFF date — Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, directed by the…" 37:20 . Jenna names Thelma & Louise as the first film that showed her female friendship portrayed powerfully, and Muriel's Wedding as her all-time favorite. Angela's pick is Pride and Prejudice, and she plays a clip of director Joe Wright describing how Emma Thompson improvised the Charlotte Lucas 'Don't judge me, Lizzie' speech while walking on Hampstead Heath [2] — Angela Kinsey "Don't judge me, Lizzie. Don't you dare judge me." 43:07 . Producers Cassie and Sam add their own picks — Bottoms and In Bruges respectively — and Angela confesses she has never seen Pride and Prejudice, prompting a mock-serious demand from Angela that Jenna watch it properly, not distracted like she watched Lord of the Rings.
The second ad break features OneSkin, which promotes its OS-1 peptide targeting senescent 'zombie' skin cells and offers 15% off at oneskin.co/moth with code MOTH; Quince, promoting elevated essentials using organic cotton and European linen at 50–80% less than comparable brands, with free shipping at quince.com/moth; and a cross-promotional announcement from Jill Schlesinger for her new podcast Money Moves, which promises actionable financial guidance and social media myth-busting.
Jenna Fischer dives into Snapchat's 2011 Friendship Report, which she read in full. She shares that the five most common friendship-killers in one's 30s and 40s are: new love, parenthood, employment changes, loss of a loved one, and relocation [1] — Jenna Fischer "Jenna Fischer dug into Snapchat's 2011 Friendship Report and found that the top five stressors that end friendships in your 30s and 40s are…" 47:36 — and notes she has lost friends to all five while also gaining new friends through each category. She then unpacks three practical friendship-making strategies from the report: assume people like you (backed by experiments showing that people told a group accepted them were more open and positive); don't wait for organic connection but take initiative, including online [2] — Jenna Fischer "Research shows that after meeting strangers, people consistently underestimate how much the other person liked them. The solution? Simply a…" 50:40 ; and join a group hobby — Jenna's personal favorite, which she credits for all her early LA friendships [3] — Jenna Fischer "Snapchat's Friendship Report offered three concrete suggestions for making adult friends: assume people already like you, don't wait for fr…" 50:00 . A listener letter from Sanni in Finland describes meeting her Hungarian best friend online in the early 2010s, never sharing a native language but FaceTiming, texting, and sending reels. Angela closes the segment with her most charming personal data point: at age 13, she literally stuck her foot in front of a passing stranger's bike and asked, 'Wanna be friends?'
Jenna invites producer Sam Kiefer to share his sobriety journey as a real-world case study in adult friendship-making. Sam describes how making new sober friends over 40 was far harder than expected — he took fencing, cello, sign language, kickball, and bowling classes, stepping into rooms of strangers roughly once a week for a year [1] — Sam Kiefer "Producer Sam Kiefer describes the unexpected difficulty of building new sober friendships over 40 — taking fencing, cello, sign language, k…" 57:10 . It worked: he made genuine new friends through 12-step programs and hobby classes alike. But when Jenna asks whether he assumes people like him, Sam is candid: he is hardwired toward self-dislike, is actively working on it in therapy, and found the Snapchat advice almost absurd in its apparent simplicity [2] — Sam Kiefer "I'm naturally hardwired to not like myself. It's like a thing I'm dealing with in therapy and this, all this stuff. So that, I like threw m…" 59:16 . He describes the 'emotional hangover' of driving home from every social event, replaying everything he said and concluding no one liked him — despite nothing actually going wrong. Jenna affirms she understands, citing her own social anxiety and inner self-critic as roots of the same pattern.
Jenna says if she had to name one thing that created their friendship, it was location proximity — specifically, their desks backing directly onto each other on The Office set [1] — Angela Kinsey "Jenna and Angela trace the root of their two-decade friendship to a single fact: their desks backed up to each other on The Office set. Pro…" 1:01:00 . A fan letter from Kristen in Buffalo mirrors their story: Kristen met her best friend Corey at work when they were assigned connected desks and used a headphone splitter to listen to podcasts together. Angela then reads from her early-days Office journal: an entry about eating lunch in Jenna's trailer, doing lame counter push-ups, admiring her hydrangeas, and carpooling to the Beverly Center together on a shared day off. Jenna says hearing the entry confirms exactly why the friendship worked — it was built from simple, everyday moments that made each other feel comfortable and real. Angela says the trailer lunches, not the acting, are where she felt most like herself.
Jenna describes wandering past a Claire's and spotting a cheesy split 'Best Friends' necklace — one half says 'B-Fri,' the other 'St. Ann's,' together reading 'Best Friends' [1] — Jenna Fischer "Jenna Fischer spotted a cheesy 'Best Friends' split necklace at Claire's and almost didn't buy it — she and Angela had never called each ot…" 1:04:14 . She stood there deliberating: they had never called each other best friends, she didn't have any other close friends at the time, and she feared the gesture might be 'too much too soon.' She bought it anyway and gave it to Angela, who immediately declared she loved it. Jenna compares the vulnerability of the moment to saying 'I love you' for the first time in a relationship. Angela adds that around the same time, she had made them matching sweatshirts with their character names on them — suggesting the feeling was entirely mutual.
In the episode's most unexpected and emotionally resonant moment, producer Sam Kiefer asks to read a prepared letter before the show ends. He reveals that the last decade of his life was largely controlled by drugs and alcohol behind the scenes, and that being let go from SiriusXM forced him to recognize that unlimited free time and severance would lead to an overdose without immediate intervention [1] — Sam Kiefer "Producer Sam Kiefer reads an on-air letter to Jenna, Angela, and Cassie revealing he got sober after being let go from SiriusXM and that fi…" 1:01:15 . He joined a 12-step program, got a sponsor, and dove in with full conviction — but the harder work was confronting the trauma underneath. Over five years with Office Ladies, he says, Jenna, Angela, and Cassie have systematically dismantled large parts of his painful thinking. He addresses each person individually: Angela for her bottomless empathy and active listening; Jenna for modeling self-respect and refusing to be spoken down to; and Cassie for her quiet confidence and clear sense of self, which inspired him to take up cello and structured his sober daily life. He closes by reclaiming the phrase 'we are a family' — normally a cynical management cliché — as something Jenna and Angela have actually achieved [2] — Sam Kiefer "There's a phrase that I hate from years of working in food service, and that phrase is, 'We are a family.' Normally when you hear that, som…" 1:08:40 . Jenna responds tearfully, and the group closes with a toast to another year together.
Jenna and Angela close the episode by thanking listeners for joining the Best Friends Day celebration, then reading the full production credits: the podcast is produced by Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey, with executive producer Cassie Jerkins, audio engineer Sam Kiefer, associate producer Ainsley Bubbico, and Odyssey executive producer Leah Reese Dennis. The theme song 'Rubber Tree' is by Creed Bratton. A final post-roll ad for Athletic Brewing Company promotes their award-winning non-alcoholic beers, available for delivery or in stores.
Chapter 4 · 04:45
Jenna Fischer delights in the discovery that there are actually two Best Friend Days — National (June 8th, created by U.S. Congress in 1935) and International (July 30th, declared by the United Nations in 2011) [1] — Jenna Fischer "National Best Friends Day est. 1935: The U.S. Congress established National Best Friends Day on June 8th in 1935 to honor friendship bonds …" 05:05 . Congress chose June 8th for its reliably pleasant weather, wanting people to get outside with their friends. The UN's version focuses on friendship as a vehicle for global peace and understanding. Jenna closes the segment by mentioning the New York Public Library's list of 15 friendship novels, offering to link it in stories for listeners who want reading recommendations.
The U.S. Congress established National Best Friends Day in 1935 specifically to honor friendship and encourage Americans to get outside with their friends in the pleasant June weather. The United Nations separately declared July 30th International Friendship Day in 2011 — so there are actually two of them.
The U.S. Congress established National Best Friends Day on June 8th in 1935 to honor friendship bonds and encourage outdoor socializing.
In 2011, the United Nations declared July 30th International Friendship Day to promote peace and understanding across communities and nations.
Chapter 5 · 07:28
Angela Kinsey presents an online ranked list of the 10 best Office friendships, working from Erin and Phyllis at number 10 all the way to the surprise number one: Jim and Dwight [1] — Angela Kinsey "Online consensus places Jim and Dwight as the number one friendship on The Office, above Michael and Dwight. Angela and Jenna push back and…" 07:30 . The group debates the pick — Jim called Dwight his best friend in a moment of realization — but both Jenna and Angela push back on significant omissions, naming Pam and Michael, Andy and Darryl, and the genuine Angela/Oscar bond as friendships that deserved spots. The segment doubles as a warmhearted taxonomy of all the different kinds of friendship the show depicts, from frenemies to unlikely bonds.
Online consensus places Jim and Dwight as the number one friendship on The Office, above Michael and Dwight. Angela and Jenna push back and argue the list leaves out Pam and Michael, Andy and Darryl, and the true Angela/Oscar bond.
A listener named Allison from Edmonton met her best friend Lauren when Lauren was hired as a dance teacher and given the classes Allison wanted. The friendship clicked when they box-dyed each other's hair badly in a bathtub and had splotchy color for weeks — proof that shared vulnerability is the fastest route to real friendship.
Chapter 7 · 12:40
Angela leads the group through a BuzzFeed quiz asking who would be your best friend at Dunder Mifflin. The live quiz creates revealing and funny moments — all three non-Jenna members describe themselves as 'the glue,' while Jenna declares herself 'the queen.' Career dream answers include three athletes and one entrepreneur (Jenna). The results: Sam is matched with Pam, Cassie with Michael (because they'd meet at an improv class they both failed), Angela with Jim (despite hating pranks), and Jenna with Jan — which she happily accepts. The segment is light and fun before transitioning into Jenna's more personal cancer survivor announcement.
Jenna Fischer candidly shares that after her chemotherapy port was removed, she's developed an unexpected emotional reaction to the scar — unlike her surgical scars from cancer treatment that don't bother her at all. She's trying to reframe it as a battle scar but hasn't fully gotten there yet.
Chapter 8 · 16:15
Jenna Fischer transitions the episode into deeply personal territory, announcing she appears on the cover of USA Today and MediaPlanet's Future of Cancer Care campaign magazine in honor of National Cancer Survivors Day [1] — Jenna Fischer "Jenna Fischer candidly shares that after her chemotherapy port was removed, she's developed an unexpected emotional reaction to the scar — …" 16:07 . She explains she used a photo taken before her port removal — one that shows the port's visible bump under her skin — because it felt important to document that chapter of her journey. She then shares that the port scar, unlike her other surgical scars, genuinely bothers her; she sees it every time she gets out of the shower, and she's still trying to frame it as a 'battle scar' [1] — Jenna Fischer "Jenna Fischer candidly shares that after her chemotherapy port was removed, she's developed an unexpected emotional reaction to the scar — …" 16:07 . Angela interjects with the story of how she refused to let Jenna postpone the port removal while her husband Lee was filming in Oklahoma — coordinating the hospital trip and arranging other moms to care for Jenna's kids overnight [2] — Jenna Fischer "When Jenna's husband was filming in Oklahoma and she needed her chemo port removed, she was prepared to delay the procedure for two months.…" 18:30 . The segment is a microcosm of everything the episode is about: friendship as practical love.
Jenna Fischer shared that she had her chemo port removed and now has a scar she finds difficult to accept, despite having other surgical scars from her cancer journey that don't bother her.
When Jenna's husband was filming in Oklahoma and she needed her chemo port removed, she was prepared to delay the procedure for two months. Angela said absolutely not, organized the hospital trip, and coordinated other moms to take Jenna's kids overnight so she could recover. That is what best friendship looks like in practice.
Chapter 10 · 24:41
Angela Kinsey introduces the episode's first-best-friend segment by describing Corinza, who she met in Indonesia before she could even remember — their mothers played tennis together, and there is no childhood memory from that era without her [1] — Angela Kinsey "Angela Kinsey met her first best friend Corinza as a toddler in Indonesia, where their mothers played tennis together. There is not a singl…" 24:41 . Corinza is now a middle school librarian in Austin and they still text regularly. Two listener letters follow: Alana D. from Pittsburgh whose childhood friend Cassie flew in to support her on her breast cancer diagnosis day and mastectomy recovery; and Carly B. from Newark, Texas, whose best friend London has her husband saving his wife's caller ID as 'light of my wife' and who smears food on her own clothing whenever Carly spills on herself in solidarity. Both letters underscore that great friendships survive relocation and life upheaval.
Angela Kinsey met her first best friend Corinza as a toddler in Indonesia, where their mothers played tennis together. There is not a single childhood memory from that era that doesn't include Corinza. Today, Corinza is a middle school librarian in Austin and they still text and check in regularly.
Angela Kinsey's first best friend, Corinza, was met when Angela was a toddler in Indonesia; there is no memory of her childhood in that period without her.
Jenna Fischer had two childhood best friends — Beth and Lauren — both of whom moved away suddenly, leaving her without a close friend for years. She describes getting 'a best friend for each season of her life' until Angela came along as the one who stuck. The pattern of loss likely shaped how hard she invests in adult friendships.
Chapter 11 · 29:55
Jenna Fischer opens her childhood friendship story with Beth, a cul-de-sac neighbor she was inseparable from until Beth's family moved suddenly, leaving Jenna without a close friend for years. Then came Lauren from school — another inseparable bond broken by a move, this time in middle school, leaving Jenna devastated enough that her mom arranged a solo trip to visit Lauren in Boston. In high school and college, Jenna made close friends who she still knows, but she describes having 'gone through periods without a true tell-you-everything best friend' [1] — Jenna Fischer "Jenna Fischer had two childhood best friends — Beth and Lauren — both of whom moved away suddenly, leaving her without a close friend for y…" 29:54 . She credits Angela as the one who finally stayed, and Angela responds that their friendship is the product of being in charge of their own lives as adults — able to maintain contact on their own terms. The team shares their own childhood friend memories: producer Cassie bonded with Amber over a canyon and animals, and Sam knew Jared from Watertown, Wisconsin until Jared entered the military post-9/11.
Chapter 13 · 37:10
Angela reveals that Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants — which she and Jenna saw together on a BFF date — is on the top friendship movie lists and is celebrating its 20th anniversary, prompting a suggestion of an outdoor screening together [1] — Angela Kinsey "Angela Kinsey revealed that the movie she and Jenna went to see together on a BFF date — Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, directed by the…" 37:20 . Jenna names Thelma & Louise as the first film that showed her female friendship portrayed powerfully, and Muriel's Wedding as her all-time favorite. Angela's pick is Pride and Prejudice, and she plays a clip of director Joe Wright describing how Emma Thompson improvised the Charlotte Lucas 'Don't judge me, Lizzie' speech while walking on Hampstead Heath [2] — Angela Kinsey "Don't judge me, Lizzie. Don't you dare judge me." 43:07 . Producers Cassie and Sam add their own picks — Bottoms and In Bruges respectively — and Angela confesses she has never seen Pride and Prejudice, prompting a mock-serious demand from Angela that Jenna watch it properly, not distracted like she watched Lord of the Rings.
Angela Kinsey revealed that the movie she and Jenna went to see together on a BFF date — Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, directed by their Office colleague Ken Kwapis — is celebrating its 20th anniversary. The date was 20 years ago, making it a perfect mirror for their own friendship's span.
Angela Kinsey revealed that Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, which she and Jenna saw together in the theater, is celebrating its 20th anniversary in 2025.
Chapter 15 · 47:00
Jenna Fischer dives into Snapchat's 2011 Friendship Report, which she read in full. She shares that the five most common friendship-killers in one's 30s and 40s are: new love, parenthood, employment changes, loss of a loved one, and relocation [1] — Jenna Fischer "Jenna Fischer dug into Snapchat's 2011 Friendship Report and found that the top five stressors that end friendships in your 30s and 40s are…" 47:36 — and notes she has lost friends to all five while also gaining new friends through each category. She then unpacks three practical friendship-making strategies from the report: assume people like you (backed by experiments showing that people told a group accepted them were more open and positive); don't wait for organic connection but take initiative, including online [2] — Jenna Fischer "Research shows that after meeting strangers, people consistently underestimate how much the other person liked them. The solution? Simply a…" 50:40 ; and join a group hobby — Jenna's personal favorite, which she credits for all her early LA friendships [3] — Jenna Fischer "Snapchat's Friendship Report offered three concrete suggestions for making adult friends: assume people already like you, don't wait for fr…" 50:00 . A listener letter from Sanni in Finland describes meeting her Hungarian best friend online in the early 2010s, never sharing a native language but FaceTiming, texting, and sending reels. Angela closes the segment with her most charming personal data point: at age 13, she literally stuck her foot in front of a passing stranger's bike and asked, 'Wanna be friends?'
Jenna Fischer dug into Snapchat's 2011 Friendship Report and found that the top five stressors that end friendships in your 30s and 40s are: new love, parenthood, employment changes, losing a loved one, and relocation. The uncomfortable truth is that every major life milestone is also a friendship risk factor.
Snapchat's 2011 Friendship Report found people are good at making friends when young, but friendships become both harder to form and maintain in one's 30s and 40s.
Snapchat's Friendship Report listed the top reasons friendships end in your 30s and 40s: new love, parenthood, employment changes, loss of a loved one, and relocation.
Snapchat's Friendship Report offered three concrete suggestions for making adult friends: assume people already like you, don't wait for friendships to happen organically but take direct initiative (including online), and pursue a group hobby like yoga, pickleball, or improv. All three beat waiting.
Research shows that after meeting strangers, people consistently underestimate how much the other person liked them. The solution? Simply assume you'll be liked — people who enter social situations with that assumption share more, disagree less, and are more positive. Carry that into every room.
Researchers found that people told a group already accepted them — even when it wasn't true — let their guard down more, shared more, disagreed less, and were more positive.
Research found that after interacting with strangers, people consistently underestimate how much the other person liked them — a phenomenon called the 'liking gap.'
Chapter 16 · 57:10
Jenna invites producer Sam Kiefer to share his sobriety journey as a real-world case study in adult friendship-making. Sam describes how making new sober friends over 40 was far harder than expected — he took fencing, cello, sign language, kickball, and bowling classes, stepping into rooms of strangers roughly once a week for a year [1] — Sam Kiefer "Producer Sam Kiefer describes the unexpected difficulty of building new sober friendships over 40 — taking fencing, cello, sign language, k…" 57:10 . It worked: he made genuine new friends through 12-step programs and hobby classes alike. But when Jenna asks whether he assumes people like him, Sam is candid: he is hardwired toward self-dislike, is actively working on it in therapy, and found the Snapchat advice almost absurd in its apparent simplicity [2] — Sam Kiefer "I'm naturally hardwired to not like myself. It's like a thing I'm dealing with in therapy and this, all this stuff. So that, I like threw m…" 59:16 . He describes the 'emotional hangover' of driving home from every social event, replaying everything he said and concluding no one liked him — despite nothing actually going wrong. Jenna affirms she understands, citing her own social anxiety and inner self-critic as roots of the same pattern.
Producer Sam Kiefer describes the unexpected difficulty of building new sober friendships over 40 — taking fencing, cello, sign language, kickball, and bowling classes, walking into a room of strangers roughly once a week for a year. It worked. But the emotional hangover afterward — spiraling on the way home — never fully went away.
Sam Kiefer described making new friends over the age of 40 as unexpectedly difficult, saying he 'way overestimated how simple it would be.'
Producer Sam Kiefer, on a sobriety journey, stepped into a room of strangers roughly once a week for an entire year to build new sober friendships.
Chapter 17 · 1:01:00
Jenna says if she had to name one thing that created their friendship, it was location proximity — specifically, their desks backing directly onto each other on The Office set [1] — Angela Kinsey "Jenna and Angela trace the root of their two-decade friendship to a single fact: their desks backed up to each other on The Office set. Pro…" 1:01:00 . A fan letter from Kristen in Buffalo mirrors their story: Kristen met her best friend Corey at work when they were assigned connected desks and used a headphone splitter to listen to podcasts together. Angela then reads from her early-days Office journal: an entry about eating lunch in Jenna's trailer, doing lame counter push-ups, admiring her hydrangeas, and carpooling to the Beverly Center together on a shared day off. Jenna says hearing the entry confirms exactly why the friendship worked — it was built from simple, everyday moments that made each other feel comfortable and real. Angela says the trailer lunches, not the acting, are where she felt most like herself.
Jenna and Angela trace the root of their two-decade friendship to a single fact: their desks backed up to each other on The Office set. Proximity created opportunity; shared day-to-day moments built the bridge. A journal entry Angela reads from those early days captures it perfectly — lunch in a trailer, arm weights, and hydrangeas.
Producer Sam Kiefer reads an on-air letter to Jenna, Angela, and Cassie revealing he got sober after being let go from SiriusXM and that five years with the Office Ladies team dismantled the pain he had been numbing with drugs and alcohol. He credits each of them with specific life lessons and calls the podcast a genuine family — not the cynical HR version.
Jenna Fischer spotted a cheesy 'Best Friends' split necklace at Claire's and almost didn't buy it — she and Angela had never called each other best friends, and she feared it was 'too much too soon.' She bought it anyway. Angela loved it instantly. It was, Jenna says, like saying 'I love you' for the first time.
Chapter 18 · 1:04:15
Jenna describes wandering past a Claire's and spotting a cheesy split 'Best Friends' necklace — one half says 'B-Fri,' the other 'St. Ann's,' together reading 'Best Friends' [1] — Jenna Fischer "Jenna Fischer spotted a cheesy 'Best Friends' split necklace at Claire's and almost didn't buy it — she and Angela had never called each ot…" 1:04:14 . She stood there deliberating: they had never called each other best friends, she didn't have any other close friends at the time, and she feared the gesture might be 'too much too soon.' She bought it anyway and gave it to Angela, who immediately declared she loved it. Jenna compares the vulnerability of the moment to saying 'I love you' for the first time in a relationship. Angela adds that around the same time, she had made them matching sweatshirts with their character names on them — suggesting the feeling was entirely mutual.
Sam Kiefer said he had been working on the Office Ladies podcast for five years, and that the team had systematically helped dismantle the painful parts of his thinking during that time.
Chapter 19 · 1:06:15
In the episode's most unexpected and emotionally resonant moment, producer Sam Kiefer asks to read a prepared letter before the show ends. He reveals that the last decade of his life was largely controlled by drugs and alcohol behind the scenes, and that being let go from SiriusXM forced him to recognize that unlimited free time and severance would lead to an overdose without immediate intervention [1] — Sam Kiefer "Producer Sam Kiefer reads an on-air letter to Jenna, Angela, and Cassie revealing he got sober after being let go from SiriusXM and that fi…" 1:01:15 . He joined a 12-step program, got a sponsor, and dove in with full conviction — but the harder work was confronting the trauma underneath. Over five years with Office Ladies, he says, Jenna, Angela, and Cassie have systematically dismantled large parts of his painful thinking. He addresses each person individually: Angela for her bottomless empathy and active listening; Jenna for modeling self-respect and refusing to be spoken down to; and Cassie for her quiet confidence and clear sense of self, which inspired him to take up cello and structured his sober daily life. He closes by reclaiming the phrase 'we are a family' — normally a cynical management cliché — as something Jenna and Angela have actually achieved [2] — Sam Kiefer "There's a phrase that I hate from years of working in food service, and that phrase is, 'We are a family.' Normally when you hear that, som…" 1:08:40 . Jenna responds tearfully, and the group closes with a toast to another year together.
No indexed bits in this chapter.
Producer Sam Kiefer reads an on-air letter to Jenna, Angela, and Cassie revealing he got sober after being let go from SiriusXM and that five years with the Office Ladies team dismantled the pain he had been numbing with drugs and alcohol. He credits each of them with specific life lessons and calls the podcast a genuine family — not the cynical HR version.
Jenna Fischer spotted a cheesy 'Best Friends' split necklace at Claire's and almost didn't buy it — she and Angela had never called each other best friends, and she feared it was 'too much too soon.' She bought it anyway. Angela loved it instantly. It was, Jenna says, like saying 'I love you' for the first time.
Research shows that after meeting strangers, people consistently underestimate how much the other person liked them. The solution? Simply assume you'll be liked — people who enter social situations with that assumption share more, disagree less, and are more positive. Carry that into every room.
This episode
Factual claims made this episode, and whether a source was named.
National Best Friends Day was established by the U.S. Congress in 1935 on June 8th to honor friendship bonds.
The United Nations declared July 30th as International Friendship Day in 2011 to promote peace and understanding among communities and nations.
The New York Public Library published a list of 15 novels about friendship recommended for reading with a best friend.
Snapchat conducted a research project in 2011 called the Friendship Report examining the state and nature of friendships around the world.
According to Snapchat's Friendship Report, friendships become harder to make and maintain for people in their 30s and 40s.
Snapchat's Friendship Report found the top five stressors that end friendships in one's 30s and 40s are: new love, parenthood, employment changes, loss of a loved one, and relocation.
Research found that people told a group had already accepted them — even falsely — let their guard down more, shared more, disagreed less, and were more positive overall.
Researchers identified a 'liking gap' in which people consistently underestimate how much a stranger liked them after a social interaction.
Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants is celebrating its 20th anniversary and is available on digital.
Emma Thompson improvised the Charlotte Lucas 'Don't judge me, Lizzie' speech in Pride and Prejudice while walking with director Joe Wright on Hampstead Heath.
Jenna Fischer appeared on the cover of USA Today and Media Planet's Future of Cancer Care campaign magazine in honor of National Cancer Survivors Day.
Sam Kiefer got sober after being let go from SiriusXM, realizing the unlimited free time and severance package would likely result in an overdose if he didn't seek help.
This episode
Executive producer of Office Ladies; a member of the core team who receives a heartfelt tribute from Sam Kiefer in his sobriety letter.
A 2011 research project commissioned by Snapchat examining global friendship patterns, heavily cited by Jenna Fischer in the episode.
Credited with improvising the famous Charlotte Lucas 'Don't judge me, Lizzie' speech in Pride and Prejudice while walking with director Joe Wright on Hampstead Heath.
Director of Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants and a director on The Office; described as 'our very own Ken Kwapis' by Angela Kinsey.
The fictional paper company setting of The Office, referenced in a BuzzFeed quiz about which Dunder Mifflin character would be your best friend.
Charity partner mentioned in a mid-roll ad; raises funds for 170 children's hospitals across the US and Canada.
Sam Kiefer was let go from SiriusXM, which he describes as the turning point that led him to seek sobriety.
Jenna Fischer appears on the cover of USA Today's Future of Cancer Care campaign magazine insert in honor of National Cancer Survivors Day.
The NBC sitcom where Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey met and on which their friendship is based; central to the whole episode's framing.
The rewatch podcast hosted by Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey, the source show for this guest episode.
Angela's favorite film, celebrating its 20th anniversary; she uses Charlotte Lucas and Elizabeth Bennet's friendship as an ideal of honest, supportive friendship.
2005 film directed by Ken Kwapis and named among the top friendship movies; Jenna and Angela saw it together on a BFF date 20 years ago.
Ranked the number one friendship film online; Jenna credits it as the first time she saw female friendship portrayed powerfully in cinema.
Named by Jenna Fischer as her all-time favorite best friendship movie, praised for characters who have each other's backs.
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