A nation of 17 million people gave the world Ramon Deckers, Peter Aerts, Badr Hari, Melvin Manhoef, Rob Kamen, Ernesto Hoost, and Rico Verhoeven. Rico's theory: the country is so small that every gym shares knowledge freely. In the US, you need a flight. In Holland, you drive 40 minutes and spar the national champion.
Where this was said
At 1:33:10 · chapter starts 1:31:30
This chapter opens with a surprising disclosure: Rico and Tom Aspinall have trained together for close to 10 years [1] — Joe Rogan "The calf kick went from obscure to fight-ending in a few years. Conor McGregor never faced it before his return — and Dustin Poirier destro…" 1:42:24 . When the eye-poke controversy comes up, Rico defends Aspinall with personal credibility. Rogan agrees forcefully — Aspinall was knuckle-deep in his eye and had to have two surgeries afterward. The backlash from fans who expected him to keep fighting blind was unjust. The glove reform discussion is substantive: Rogan explains that UFC gloves require fighters to hold their fingers in a curled-down position, meaning when Muay Thai fighters frame off with open hands, they're essentially pointing their fingertips. Trevor Whitman's alternative glove design from Onyx Sports keeps the hand in a naturally curved position, which would prevent most eye pokes. The problem is a structural design flaw, not individual malice from fighters like Cyril Gane.
The UFC did contact Rico and discussed a fight with Derrick Lewis, but the financial gap between boxing and UFC was simply too large. After his Usyk performance, that gap has only widened. Rico says he'd need the deal to genuinely make sense — and historically, that's not how the UFC operates at this level.
Aspinall is a close training partner of Rico's who stopped a fight after a knuckle-deep eye poke from Cyril Gane. The crowd turned on him. Rico and Rogan both defend Aspinall: a foul ended the fight, not weakness — and he's had two eye surgeries since. Fans who think he should've continued through a gouged eye are out of line.
Thomas's wife deferred her CrossFit career — she's in the global top 1% of athletes — to put him through law school debt-free. He wants her to chase the dream now; she wants the emergency fund and house down payment first. On a $200K lawyer income with no debt, the opportunity cost is just a few months of slower saving.
Underground calisthenics battles are exactly like UFC meets a rap battle — 150 people crowded around a circle, fighters walking out with masks and chains, nicknames like 'Extra Money' vs 'Calisthenics the Prince,' and people throwing money and betting. The battle set: 100 burpees, 50 muscle-ups, 75 dips, 75 squats with a 65-pound dumbbell. This is the next big spectator sport.
Rico Verhoeven controlled the undisputed heavyweight boxing champion for approximately 10 rounds — and had his appeal upheld when officials admitted the fight was stopped after the bell. The result was never overturned. Rogan calls it either incompetence or corruption, and argues the money behind Usyk made an upset politically inconvenient.
Rogan lays out a blunt case: boxing's 3-judge system is structurally broken, and the judges know who the promoter wants to win. Glory's 5-judge format is the right model. Corruption doesn't have to be conscious — just knowing Usyk is the cash cow is enough to tilt the scales.
With the Usyk-Wilder fight stalling and Fury-Joshua coming too late, the real fight the world wants is the rematch. Rico is a free agent. Usyk vacated his belts. The story is unfinished and both Rogan and Rico know it. His Excellency Turki Alasheikh already called for it ringside — the question is money.
Rico texted Jason Statham during the Canelo-Crawford fight. Statham showed Rico's highlight videos to promoters. Two days later, Rico was on a call about fighting Anthony Joshua. When Joshua pulled out, Rico pitched Usyk himself — Undisputed vs. Undisputed. Usyk said yes in two weeks. The whole thing started with one text.
Every heavyweight who faced Usyk tried to move to the right — straight into his power hand. Rico and Peter Fury identified the obvious solution: move left, away from the left hand, and smother him with size. It sounds simple. Nobody had done it. That one adjustment was the foundation of 10 dominant rounds.
MMA fans boo when fights go to the ground. They love stand-up. Kickboxing is pure stand-up. Yet it barely exists in America while boxing and MMA are enormous. Rogan's diagnosis: no promotion machine. If the UFC got behind kickboxing the way they've built MMA, it would explode. The talent is there — the storytelling machine is not.
Rogan and Rico credit His Excellency Turki Alasheikh with making fights that promoters couldn't or wouldn't: Usyk vs. Verhoeven, Ngannou vs. Fury, Crawford vs. Canelo, even a fight on Times Square. His edge: when people say it's impossible, that's his signal to make it happen — and an unlimited checkbook doesn't hurt.
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