Podbit · Lex Fridman Podcast
Around 70% of men and more than half of women have fantasized about killing someone. Far from being a warning sign, Shaw argues this is adaptive: mentally rehearsing the worst-case scenario is how the brain stress-tests its own moral limits and ultimately reinforces them.
Where this was said
At 37:27 · chapter starts 29:23
Shaw recounts how the Robert Pickton case — a Canadian serial killer who killed victims on his farm and allegedly fed them to pigs — first captured her attention as an undergraduate at Simon Fraser University. Her professor, Stephen Hart, was an expert witness on the trial and modeled the 'gallows humor' that made criminal psychology feel like a viable career. The pivot to the psychology of serial killers in general reveals a consistent pattern: profound loneliness undermines 'reality monitoring' — the social checks that keep extreme thinking tethered to shared reality [1] — Julia Shaw "Serial killers are not born with a kill-switch. What many share is profound loneliness and a lack of social networks that perform 'reality …" 32:32 . Without close relationships to challenge distorted thoughts, dark ideation can escalate unchecked. Shaw brings in the parallel to radicalization and psychosis: in all these cases, the absence of a social tether allows extreme worldviews to solidify. The discussion of Jeffrey Dahmer is particularly striking — Shaw expresses genuine sympathy for his desperate (and horrific) attempt to create a permanent companion, calling it a 'sad' manifestation of a desire for connection that, in its core, is universally human. Elizabeth Loftus is mentioned as another expert who has worked on high-profile criminal cases, including Ghislaine Maxwell.
Serial killers are not born with a kill-switch. What many share is profound loneliness and a lack of social networks that perform 'reality monitoring' — the everyday checks that keep thoughts tethered to reality. Without that tether, dark ideation spirals unchecked toward violence.
Shaw's false memory protocol required only three interview sessions to convince the majority of participants they had committed a crime — demonstrating how quickly memory can be manipulated.
In Julia Shaw's PhD research, 70% of participants were led to believe they had committed a crime that never happened and confessed to it using suggestive interview techniques.
Research finds approximately 70% of men and more than 50% of women have at some point fantasized about killing someone, suggesting murder fantasies are a normal, adaptive phenomenon.
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