Freakonomics Radio

Podbit · Freakonomics Radio

The World Is (Still) Drowning in Sludge

Explore episode Jun 24, 2026

Where this was said

Types of Sludge: Incompetent, Accidental, and Intentional

At 12:25 · chapter starts 9:30

Thaler begins with what he calls 'inadvertent and/or incompetent sludge' — design failures like Norman doors, where the physical affordance of a door handle tells your brain to pull when you need to push. These aren't malicious, just thoughtless, and the architects responsible deserve 'a special place in hell.' He then pivots to the unsubscribe trap: where one click signs you up for a service but cancellation requires a phone call, a wait, and a sales pitch. That, Thaler says, is clearly intentional. He cites gyms during COVID that required members to physically enter a closed facility to cancel their membership — nobody designs that innocently. He notes he has personally tried to convince subscription companies to stop these practices, and been told bluntly that it would cost too much. Thaler's rough estimate: healthcare sludge alone costs the US hundreds of billions annually, though almost none of it is formally measured.

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