Podbit · Dateline NBC
Women dominate true crime viewership, and June Diane Raphael has a compelling theory why: the genre offers genuine empathy for victims, helps listeners recognize red flags, and returns a sense of agency to people who often feel like potential victims themselves. It's not morbid fascination — it's protective learning.
Where this was said
At 31:20 · chapter starts 30:40
June Diane Raphael, star of Grace and Frankie and podcaster behind How Did This Get Made? and The Deep Dive, joins Andrea to share her perspective as a devoted Dateline fan. She explains that true crime stories told with empathy for victims help women recognize red flags and feel more in control — a form of protective learning rather than voyeurism. Andrea adds her own observation: because so many cases involve men killing women, the satisfaction of watching justice delivered at the end of a Dateline is genuine and hard-earned. Raphael also mentions she attended a SXSW true crime panel with Dateline's Josh and Keith, and was struck by how much time they spend maintaining relationships with the families they've covered.
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Jungian analyst James Hollis distills a good life to four things: shut up (have gratitude, stop whining), suit up (prepare yourself to fulfill a role), show up (do the actual work in service of others), and daily get out of stimulus-response to ask what your deeper wish actually is. The whole landscape of self-help slots into just these four bins.
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