Podbit · The Joe Rogan Experience
From drug experimentation in college, to two failed title shots, to the Max Holloway KO, to a 6-to-1 underdog win at the White House — Gaethje says he wouldn't change a single thing. The farther back you go in his career, the more special this moment becomes.
Where this was said
At 29:20 · chapter starts 24:10
Rogan prods Gaethje about the Max Holloway fight, and what emerges is the clearest self-assessment Gaethje has made about any loss. [1] — Justin Gaethje "Gaethje didn't respect Max Holloway. He couldn't find what he was afraid of heading into that fight — and for a competitor who needs genuin…" 25:00 He and Wittman both admit they take responsibility: Wittman told Gaethje to take the fight even though Gaethje was reluctant. Gaethje's problem was something Wittman missed in real time — Gaethje simply didn't respect Holloway. Not disrespect born of arrogance, but a psychological gap: he couldn't find what he was afraid of. His entire competitive edge comes from genuine fear — from the real life-or-death feeling of fighting. Without it, he wasn't in full fight-or-flight mode. He could hear the crowd. He had thoughts. He was present in the arena in a way he never normally is. The spinning back kick that ended the fight landed on a man who was mentally elsewhere. Wittman says the most important lesson he took was catching this kind of flag earlier — and the hardest part is that on the surface, Gaethje looked completely normal.
Gaethje didn't respect Max Holloway. He couldn't find what he was afraid of heading into that fight — and for a competitor who needs genuine fear to reach peak focus, that was fatal. He heard the crowd during the fight. He had thoughts. He was never truly locked in.
Thomas's wife deferred her CrossFit career — she's in the global top 1% of athletes — to put him through law school debt-free. He wants her to chase the dream now; she wants the emergency fund and house down payment first. On a $200K lawyer income with no debt, the opportunity cost is just a few months of slower saving.
Underground calisthenics battles are exactly like UFC meets a rap battle — 150 people crowded around a circle, fighters walking out with masks and chains, nicknames like 'Extra Money' vs 'Calisthenics the Prince,' and people throwing money and betting. The battle set: 100 burpees, 50 muscle-ups, 75 dips, 75 squats with a 65-pound dumbbell. This is the next big spectator sport.
Rico Verhoeven controlled the undisputed heavyweight boxing champion for approximately 10 rounds — and had his appeal upheld when officials admitted the fight was stopped after the bell. The result was never overturned. Rogan calls it either incompetence or corruption, and argues the money behind Usyk made an upset politically inconvenient.
Rogan lays out a blunt case: boxing's 3-judge system is structurally broken, and the judges know who the promoter wants to win. Glory's 5-judge format is the right model. Corruption doesn't have to be conscious — just knowing Usyk is the cash cow is enough to tilt the scales.
With the Usyk-Wilder fight stalling and Fury-Joshua coming too late, the real fight the world wants is the rematch. Rico is a free agent. Usyk vacated his belts. The story is unfinished and both Rogan and Rico know it. His Excellency Turki Alasheikh already called for it ringside — the question is money.
Rico texted Jason Statham during the Canelo-Crawford fight. Statham showed Rico's highlight videos to promoters. Two days later, Rico was on a call about fighting Anthony Joshua. When Joshua pulled out, Rico pitched Usyk himself — Undisputed vs. Undisputed. Usyk said yes in two weeks. The whole thing started with one text.
Every heavyweight who faced Usyk tried to move to the right — straight into his power hand. Rico and Peter Fury identified the obvious solution: move left, away from the left hand, and smother him with size. It sounds simple. Nobody had done it. That one adjustment was the foundation of 10 dominant rounds.
MMA fans boo when fights go to the ground. They love stand-up. Kickboxing is pure stand-up. Yet it barely exists in America while boxing and MMA are enormous. Rogan's diagnosis: no promotion machine. If the UFC got behind kickboxing the way they've built MMA, it would explode. The talent is there — the storytelling machine is not.
A nation of 17 million people gave the world Ramon Deckers, Peter Aerts, Badr Hari, Melvin Manhoef, Rob Kamen, Ernesto Hoost, and Rico Verhoeven. Rico's theory: the country is so small that every gym shares knowledge freely. In the US, you need a flight. In Holland, you drive 40 minutes and spar the national champion.
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