The Boston Celtics traded their 2024 Finals MVP Jaylen Brown to division rival Philadelphia for Paul George — a player they were trying to dump for a single first-round pick just weeks earlier.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Boston Celtics traded their 2024 Finals MVP Jaylen Brown to division rival Philadelphia for Paul George — a player they were trying to dump for a single first-round pick just weeks earlier.
TL;DR
Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Kirk Goldsberry react to the blockbuster trade sending Jaylen Brown to the Philadelphia 76ers for Paul George and two first-round picks — a deal Simmons literally woke up from anesthesia to discover [1] — Bill Simmons "Bill Simmons was under anesthesia getting a colonoscopy when the Celtics traded Jaylen Brown. He woke up, his wife told him, and his first …" 01:00 . The trio dissect why Boston's front office may have found the relationship untenable [2] — Bill Simmons "Philadelphia was actively shopping Paul George before this deal, willing to attach a first-round pick just to shed him. Then they got the 2…" 14:00 , tear apart the Lakers' confusing offseason roster construction [3] — Bill Simmons "Kawhi Leonard has played just 11 playoff games in five years, hasn't won a series since May 2021, and lost the first play-in game last year…" 1:29:40 , and debate Kawhi Leonard's Toronto return and LeBron's next landing spot. The single most useful takeaway: the NBA's second-apron hard cap is the dominant force reshaping rosters and ending dynasties [4] — Kirk Goldsberry "The 3-point line changed everything on the court in the 2010s. The second-apron hard cap is doing the same thing in front offices in the 20…" 58:00 .
Bill Simmons, Kirk Goldsberry, and Chris Ryan react to the Celtics trading Jaylen Brown to the 76ers for Paul George, then discuss the Lakers' offseason, Kawhi's return to Toronto, and LeBron's landing spots.
The episode opens with back-to-back sponsor reads for PNC Bank and PayPal before Bill Simmons introduces the show as a 'rare morning podcast,' welcoming Kirk Goldsberry and Chris Ryan. He immediately teases an extraordinary personal story about how he came to learn about the blockbuster trade — setting the table for what is to come.
This chapter is the episode's most analytically ambitious. Bill Simmons draws a through-line from the '80s Celtics and Lakers staying together, to the cap-circumvention era ending, to free agency reshaping the '90s, to the second-apron hardcap now forcing teams to dump Finals MVPs to division rivals. Kirk Goldsberry lands the key stat: for the first time in NBA history, the league has had eight different champions in eight consecutive seasons. [1] — Kirk Goldsberry "For the first time ever, the NBA has had eight different champions in eight consecutive seasons. It's not a coincidence — the 2023 CBA made…" 49:40 The CBA, he argues, deliberately created this parity — but the cost is beloved players getting dumped and fan bases losing the long-term relationships that drive loyalty. His analogy that the second apron is the 3-point line of the 2020s crystallizes the structural shift. [2] — Kirk Goldsberry "The 3-point line was the dominant game-changing artifact of the 2010s. The hard cap second apron is the equivalent in the 2020s. It's chang…" 59:21 Bill Simmons then reveals a previously unreported detail: the Celtics-Giannis trade fell apart over one year and 5% of the cap in extension terms, illustrating just how consequential these financial hairsplits have become.
The Lakers section is the episode's comic relief after the grim Celtics analysis. Bill Simmons had spent the morning gleefully texting Laker fans about their offseason before his own team's trade blindsided him. Now he surveys the carnage: Kessler gets $130M on a 4-year deal despite playing 5 games; Quinton Grimes and Mamou get $60M and $52M respectively; LeBron is gone; and meaningful draft capital has been surrendered. [1] — Bill Simmons "The Lakers gave up two first-round picks and $130 million for Walker Kessler, who played 5 games last year. They have no answer for SGA, An…" 1:11:30 Kirk Goldsberry, as a Spurs partisan, isn't remotely scared by this roster. The most damning data point: the last time an NBA team with three white players as its best three won a championship was the 1958 St. Louis Hawks. Bill and Chris agree the team appears to have been assembled to suit Luka Dončić's preferences — rim-runner, secondary handler, shooters — rather than with any coherent defensive identity.
The Kawhi Leonard return to Toronto is presented as a masterpiece of collective sports amnesia. Bill Simmons methodically catalogs Kawhi's playoff record since his Clippers tenure: bubble loss in round 2, 2021 West Finals breakdown, 2022 hurt, 2023 round 1 exit in 5, 2024 round 1 exit in 6 playing 2 games, 2025 round 2 loss in 7, 2026 play-in loss at home. [1] — Bill Simmons "Kawhi Leonard has played just 11 playoff games in five years, hasn't won a series since May 2021, and lost the first play-in game last year…" 1:29:40 Kirk Goldsberry adds the analytical dimension: while Kawhi always looks elite in estimated plus-minus, the models systematically fail to account for durability as a skill. The man plays fewer games, looks better per-possession, but simply doesn't show up when it counts. Chris Ryan's closing observation is the sharpest: the Clippers have spiritually returned to the pre-Lob City era, with Darius Garland and Brandon Ingram as their centerpiece.
With LeBron James now free, the conversation becomes gleefully speculative. Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan run through the realistic landing spots: Golden State for the Curry farewell tour, Denver for the Jokic pairing, Cleveland for the full-circle narrative, San Antonio for the winning bet. But the most intriguing theory is Simmons' Roger Clemens play: [1] — Bill Simmons "LeBron James has 43,440 career points and every record there is to hold. What if he doesn't sign anywhere until January or February — watch…" 1:41:48 LeBron has 43,440 points and every record there is to own — what if he simply watches the league, stays in shape, and waits until January or February to sign with whoever looks best? Kirk Goldsberry loves the template, noting it could set a precedent for future aging stars like Kevin Durant and Stephen Curry. The panel agrees it would be the ultimate power move — maximizing both leverage and playoff health.
Chapter 1 · 00:00
The episode opens with back-to-back sponsor reads for PNC Bank and PayPal before Bill Simmons introduces the show as a 'rare morning podcast,' welcoming Kirk Goldsberry and Chris Ryan. He immediately teases an extraordinary personal story about how he came to learn about the blockbuster trade — setting the table for what is to come.
Bill Simmons was under anesthesia getting a colonoscopy when the Celtics traded Jaylen Brown. He woke up, his wife told him, and his first thought was that he had died on the operating table.
Chapter 2 · 01:15
This chapter is the episode's most analytically ambitious. Bill Simmons draws a through-line from the '80s Celtics and Lakers staying together, to the cap-circumvention era ending, to free agency reshaping the '90s, to the second-apron hardcap now forcing teams to dump Finals MVPs to division rivals. Kirk Goldsberry lands the key stat: for the first time in NBA history, the league has had eight different champions in eight consecutive seasons. [1] — Kirk Goldsberry "For the first time ever, the NBA has had eight different champions in eight consecutive seasons. It's not a coincidence — the 2023 CBA made…" 49:40 The CBA, he argues, deliberately created this parity — but the cost is beloved players getting dumped and fan bases losing the long-term relationships that drive loyalty. His analogy that the second apron is the 3-point line of the 2020s crystallizes the structural shift. [2] — Kirk Goldsberry "The 3-point line was the dominant game-changing artifact of the 2010s. The hard cap second apron is the equivalent in the 2020s. It's chang…" 59:21 Bill Simmons then reveals a previously unreported detail: the Celtics-Giannis trade fell apart over one year and 5% of the cap in extension terms, illustrating just how consequential these financial hairsplits have become.
Claims made here
The 76ers were willing to give up a first-round pick simply to dump Paul George's contract before this trade.
Jaylen Brown was the Ringer 100's 14th-ranked player in the NBA after the most recent season.
Dunks and Threes' estimated plus-minus ranked Jaylen Brown 87th in the NBA after a season where he received MVP votes.
The Celtics' net rating was 6.5 with Jaylen Brown on the floor and 10.5 when he was off the floor.
Paul George averaged 17 points per game and shot 55% from three in the most recent NBA playoffs.
The NBA has had eight different champions in eight consecutive seasons — a first in league history.
Only 2 of the 25 most-used players in the most recent NBA playoffs were aged 32 or older.
The Celtics-Giannis deal collapsed because Boston offered a 2-year extension at 30% of the cap and Giannis demanded 3 years at 35%.
In year 3 of their deals, Embiid, Jaylen Brown, and Maxey will combine to cost the 76ers approximately $178 million.
Jaylen Brown, a 2024 Finals MVP, was traded for a package worth less than Walker Kessler, who played just 5 games last season — a stark comparison of market values.
Philadelphia was actively shopping Paul George before this deal, willing to attach a first-round pick just to shed him. Then they got the 2024 Finals MVP for essentially that same package. Even the Sixers' own ownership couldn't believe it.
Before this trade, Philadelphia was willing to attach one first-round pick just to offload Paul George's contract — meaning Brown effectively cost Philly near nothing extra.
The financial logic doesn't fully explain why Boston gave away a Finals MVP. The real story is a relationship that deteriorated fast: Tatum returning from injury, Jaylen winning both the ECF and Finals MVP, a 1A-1B dynamic that turned toxic, and extension eligibility coming up. The Celtics panicked.
Advanced models rank Jaylen Brown 87th in the NBA. His on/off numbers show the Celtics were 4 points better per 100 without him. But he won Finals MVP and showed up every night — and that's the tension at the heart of this trade.
Per Dunks and Threes' estimated plus-minus, Jaylen Brown ranked 87th in the NBA after a season where he received MVP votes — illustrating the gap between eye test and advanced models.
Boston's net rating was 6.5 with Jaylen Brown on the floor but jumped to 10.5 when he sat, a stat advanced models cited as evidence against his impact.
In 2004, the Red Sox traded the most popular player on the team — Nomar Garciaparra — in July, and Boston fans lost their minds. Then Orlando Cabrera became a hero and they won the World Series. It's the only historical lifeline Celtics fans have right now.
In the most recent playoffs, Paul George averaged 17 points per game and shot 55% from three, showing he could be useful for Boston's system despite his checkered reputation.
For the first time ever, the NBA has had eight different champions in eight consecutive seasons. It's not a coincidence — the 2023 CBA made it nearly impossible to keep great teams together. The question no one wants to answer: is this actually good for fans?
For the first time in NBA history, eight consecutive seasons produced eight different champions — a direct result of the new CBA's second-apron hard cap.
Kirk Goldsberry found that only 2 of the 25 players with the most playoff minutes in the most recent postseason were 32 or older — illustrating the NBA's shift to a young man's game.
The Celtics were genuinely close to getting Giannis Antetokounmpo. Milwaukee had an arrangement where Giannis would approve the trade, and talks got into extension territory. But Boston held at 2 years, 30% of the cap; Giannis wanted 3 years at 35%. He greenlit Miami instead.
The Celtics' Giannis trade collapsed because Boston offered a 2-year, 30%-of-cap extension while Giannis wanted 3 years at 35%, leading him to approve the Miami deal instead.
In year 3 of their new deals, Embiid, Brown, and Maxey will combine to cost Philadelphia $178 million — an enormous concentration of cap space in three players.
The 3-point line changed everything on the court in the 2010s. The second-apron hard cap is doing the same thing in front offices in the 2020s. It's forcing the Celtics to trade Finals MVPs, the Knicks to let go of Mitchell Robinson, and teams everywhere to choose youth over loyalty.
Boston's championship odds roughly doubled from 6-to-1 to 13-to-1 following the Jaylen Brown trade, reflecting market pessimism about the post-Brown Celtics.
Chapter 3 · 1:08:45
The Lakers section is the episode's comic relief after the grim Celtics analysis. Bill Simmons had spent the morning gleefully texting Laker fans about their offseason before his own team's trade blindsided him. Now he surveys the carnage: Kessler gets $130M on a 4-year deal despite playing 5 games; Quinton Grimes and Mamou get $60M and $52M respectively; LeBron is gone; and meaningful draft capital has been surrendered. [1] — Bill Simmons "The Lakers gave up two first-round picks and $130 million for Walker Kessler, who played 5 games last year. They have no answer for SGA, An…" 1:11:30 Kirk Goldsberry, as a Spurs partisan, isn't remotely scared by this roster. The most damning data point: the last time an NBA team with three white players as its best three won a championship was the 1958 St. Louis Hawks. Bill and Chris agree the team appears to have been assembled to suit Luka Dončić's preferences — rim-runner, secondary handler, shooters — rather than with any coherent defensive identity.
Claims made here
The Lakers signed Walker Kessler to a 4-year, $130 million deal while giving up first-round picks in 2031 and 2033 plus swaps.
The last NBA team to win a championship with three white players as its best three players was the 1958 St. Louis Hawks.
The Celtics are paying Mitchell Robinson, Luke Garza, and Keita a combined $20 million, while the Lakers will pay DeAndre Ayton and Walker Kessler $41 million combined.
The Lakers gave up two first-round picks and $130 million for Walker Kessler, who played 5 games last year. They have no answer for SGA, Anthony Edwards, or Jamal Murray. Even a Spurs fan isn't scared. This is the franchise of Kareem and Shaq settling for depth-chart filler.
The Lakers signed Walker Kessler — who played only 5 games last season due to injury — to a 4-year, $130 million deal, surrendering 2031 and 2033 first-round picks plus swaps.
The last time an NBA champion had three white players as its best players was the 1958 St. Louis Hawks — a historical stat raised as a humorous indictment of the new-look Lakers.
Boston signed Mitchell Robinson for 3 years and $47 million — a deal the Knicks declined in order to stay under the second apron.
Jaylen Brown guarded Luka Dončić to win Finals MVP, made the shot in the Indiana series, bridged generations across the Boston community, and never gave anything less than everything on the court. Whatever the analytics say, he showed up. Every. Single. Night.
Chapter 4 · 1:22:21
The Kawhi Leonard return to Toronto is presented as a masterpiece of collective sports amnesia. Bill Simmons methodically catalogs Kawhi's playoff record since his Clippers tenure: bubble loss in round 2, 2021 West Finals breakdown, 2022 hurt, 2023 round 1 exit in 5, 2024 round 1 exit in 6 playing 2 games, 2025 round 2 loss in 7, 2026 play-in loss at home. [1] — Bill Simmons "Kawhi Leonard has played just 11 playoff games in five years, hasn't won a series since May 2021, and lost the first play-in game last year…" 1:29:40 Kirk Goldsberry adds the analytical dimension: while Kawhi always looks elite in estimated plus-minus, the models systematically fail to account for durability as a skill. The man plays fewer games, looks better per-possession, but simply doesn't show up when it counts. Chris Ryan's closing observation is the sharpest: the Clippers have spiritually returned to the pre-Lob City era, with Darius Garland and Brandon Ingram as their centerpiece.
Claims made here
Kawhi Leonard played only 11 playoff games in the five seasons from 2021-22 through 2025-26.
Kawhi Leonard's last playoff series win before the Toronto trade was in May 2021.
Kawhi Leonard has played just 11 playoff games in five years, hasn't won a series since May 2021, and lost the first play-in game last year at home. The idea that he's the missing piece for Toronto runs on pure sports amnesia.
Kawhi Leonard played only 11 playoff games in the five years from 2022–2026, winning zero playoff series since May 2021, undermining the narrative that he's a difference-maker for Toronto.
Chapter 5 · 1:32:29
With LeBron James now free, the conversation becomes gleefully speculative. Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan run through the realistic landing spots: Golden State for the Curry farewell tour, Denver for the Jokic pairing, Cleveland for the full-circle narrative, San Antonio for the winning bet. But the most intriguing theory is Simmons' Roger Clemens play: [1] — Bill Simmons "LeBron James has 43,440 career points and every record there is to hold. What if he doesn't sign anywhere until January or February — watch…" 1:41:48 LeBron has 43,440 points and every record there is to own — what if he simply watches the league, stays in shape, and waits until January or February to sign with whoever looks best? Kirk Goldsberry loves the template, noting it could set a precedent for future aging stars like Kevin Durant and Stephen Curry. The panel agrees it would be the ultimate power move — maximizing both leverage and playoff health.
Claims made here
LeBron James has 43,440 career points along with the all-time games played and minutes records.
In 2018, the Lakers called San Antonio asking for Kawhi Leonard. Pop said no. The Spurs also never cut Tony Parker to save cap space. That's how they stayed elite through the early 2010s and won the 2014 title. Boston just did the opposite.
LeBron James has 43,440 career points and every record there is to hold. What if he doesn't sign anywhere until January or February — watching the league, staying in shape, and parachuting into the best situation available? It's the Roger Clemens move, and it might be his smartest play.
LeBron James has accumulated 43,440 career points along with numerous other all-time records, leading to discussion of whether the regular season still holds value for him.
No indexed bits in this chapter.
Bill Simmons was under anesthesia getting a colonoscopy when the Celtics traded Jaylen Brown. He woke up, his wife told him, and his first thought was that he had died on the operating table.
The 3-point line changed everything on the court in the 2010s. The second-apron hard cap is doing the same thing in front offices in the 2020s. It's forcing the Celtics to trade Finals MVPs, the Knicks to let go of Mitchell Robinson, and teams everywhere to choose youth over loyalty.
Philadelphia was actively shopping Paul George before this deal, willing to attach a first-round pick just to shed him. Then they got the 2024 Finals MVP for essentially that same package. Even the Sixers' own ownership couldn't believe it.
This episode
Boston Celtics star and 2024 Finals MVP traded to the Philadelphia 76ers for Paul George and two first-round picks.
76ers star sent to the Celtics as the centerpiece of the Jaylen Brown trade; discussed as a potential toxic asset the Sixers were trying to dump.
Declined to return to the Lakers and became the episode's biggest offseason storyline, with speculation over landing spots including Denver, Golden State, Cleveland, and a potential wait-until-January strategy.
Traded to the Toronto Raptors for Brandon Ingram, Grady Dick, and two first-round picks; criticized for playing only 11 playoff games in five years.
Celtics franchise cornerstone and Achilles injury returnee around whom the team is now being rebuilt post-Brown trade, with the 1A-1B dynamic cited as a key factor in Brown's departure.
Center who played only 5 games last season due to injury, signed by the Lakers for 4 years and $130 million — a deal widely criticized as a massive overpay.
Was the centerpiece of an earlier, failed Celtics trade attempt; ultimately agreed to a trade to Miami after extension talks with Boston collapsed over contract length.
Boston Celtics team president who orchestrated the Jaylen Brown trade; discussed as having been more pessimistic about the team than the outside world, suggesting intentional deconstruction.
76ers center discussed as a luxury piece in the post-Brown era — valuable when healthy but no longer the trade's primary target, with Maxey seen as the true building block.
Lakers star around whom the entire offseason roster was built; described as effectively signing off on personnel decisions to get a team that suits his playing style.
Knicks center signed by the Celtics to a 3-year, $47M deal after New York declined to retain him to avoid the second-apron threshold.
76ers guard identified as the primary beneficiary of the Jaylen Brown trade, with the pairing of Maxey, Brown, and VJ seen as the core of Philadelphia's new roster.
Central subject of the episode, having traded Finals MVP Jaylen Brown to divisional rival Philadelphia in a deal widely criticized as below market value.
Acquired Jaylen Brown for Paul George and two first-round picks under new team president Mike Ganzey, in a deal seen as a massive win for the franchise.
Discussed extensively for their confusing offseason: signing Walker Kessler to a 4-year $130M deal while giving up multiple first-round picks and losing LeBron James.
Referenced repeatedly as a model franchise — both for their dynasty-era player retention and as a current rising team that the Lakers have no chance of beating in the playoffs.
Acquired Kawhi Leonard from the Clippers; discussed skeptically given Kawhi's limited availability and declining playoff record.
Cited as the gold standard of the new NBA model — deep, cost-controlled, and built to be nearly impossible for overpaying veteran-heavy teams like the Lakers to beat.
Stats
This episode
Factual claims made this episode, and whether a source was named.
The Celtics' net rating was 6.5 with Jaylen Brown on the floor and 10.5 when he was off the floor.
Dunks and Threes' estimated plus-minus ranked Jaylen Brown 87th in the NBA after a season where he received MVP votes.
The NBA has had eight different champions in eight consecutive seasons — a first in league history.
The 76ers were willing to give up a first-round pick simply to dump Paul George's contract before this trade.
Kawhi Leonard played only 11 playoff games in the five seasons from 2021-22 through 2025-26.
Kawhi Leonard's last playoff series win before the Toronto trade was in May 2021.
In year 3 of their deals, Embiid, Jaylen Brown, and Maxey will combine to cost the 76ers approximately $178 million.
The Lakers signed Walker Kessler to a 4-year, $130 million deal while giving up first-round picks in 2031 and 2033 plus swaps.
The Celtics-Giannis deal collapsed because Boston offered a 2-year extension at 30% of the cap and Giannis demanded 3 years at 35%.
Only 2 of the 25 most-used players in the most recent NBA playoffs were aged 32 or older.
The last NBA team to win a championship with three white players as its best three players was the 1958 St. Louis Hawks.
Paul George averaged 17 points per game and shot 55% from three in the most recent NBA playoffs.
LeBron James has 43,440 career points along with the all-time games played and minutes records.
The Celtics are paying Mitchell Robinson, Luke Garza, and Keita a combined $20 million, while the Lakers will pay DeAndre Ayton and Walker Kessler $41 million combined.
Jaylen Brown was the Ringer 100's 14th-ranked player in the NBA after the most recent season.
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