Podbit · The Mel Robbins Podcast
Stonewallers look like they don't care. Their heart rates tell a different story: 140–150 bpm, measured moments before the shutdown began. Stonewalling is not a power play — it's a desperate attempt to self-soothe from physiological overwhelm. The antidote is saying 'I'm flooded, I need 30 minutes' and then actually distracting yourself from the fight entirely.
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At 1:16:10 · chapter starts 1:11:50
The stonewalling roleplay is simple and instantly recognizable: Julie badgers John about unpaid bills, he crosses his arms, looks away, gives a dismissive 'this is not a big deal,' and shuts down completely. The huff Julie ends with is, Mel notes, contempt — the horsemen don't travel alone. [1] — Julie Gottman "Stonewallers look like they don't care. Their heart rates tell a different story: 140–150 bpm, measured moments before the shutdown began. …" 1:16:10 But the real revelation comes from the physiology: John Gottman and Bob Levinson measured heart rates in real time and found that stonewallers had rates of 140–150 bpm in the 10 seconds before they went silent. What looks like a power play is actually a panic attack. The shutdown is an attempt to self-soothe from overwhelming physiological distress — the internal monologue is not 'I don't care,' but 'whatever I say will make this worse, I just have to endure.' The antidote is not silence: it's saying 'I'm flooded, I need to take a break, and I'll be back in 30 minutes' — and then genuinely distracting yourself from the fight so stress hormones can metabolize. Saying 'let's just not talk about this' instead is one of the most damaging things you can do, Julie warns: it tells your partner their feelings don't matter.
While stonewalling is more common in men, Gottman research found that women are the stonewaller approximately 15% of the time.
Stonewallers who appeared calm were often measured at heart rates of 140–150 bpm — the shutdown is not calm disengagement but an attempt to self-soothe from physiological overwhelm.
When someone is flooded and stonewalling, they need a minimum 20–30-minute break — and must avoid thinking about the fight — for stress hormones to metabolize out of the body.
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