People who saw a hypothetical worker continue doing a job already replaced by software rated him as warmer and more moral, even though he added no extra value.
Does working hard really make you a good person? | Azim Shariff (re-release)
We're wired to see hard workers as morally good — even when their effort produces absolutely nothing — and that instinct may be quietly ruining our work culture.
TED Talks Daily
Does working hard really make you a good person? | Azim Shariff (re-release)
We're wired to see hard workers as morally good — even when their effort produces absolutely nothing — and that instinct may be quietly ruining our work culture.
TL;DR
Social psychologist Azim Shariff challenges the universal human assumption that hard work is inherently virtuous — what he calls "effort moralization." [1] — Azim Shariff "People consistently rate harder workers as more moral, even when those workers produce identical results. This isn't a Western quirk: Shari…" 02:40 Drawing on cross-cultural experiments from the US, South Korea, France, and the Hadza people of Tanzania, he shows we consistently rate harder workers as more moral even when they produce identical results [2] — Azim Shariff "Cross-cultural replication: US, South Korea, France: Shariff's effort moralization finding replicated across the US, South Korea — one of t…" 06:08 . The real danger: this bias fuels "workism," arms races of performative busyness, and "bullshit jobs." [3] — Azim Shariff "A bounty for dead cobras in colonial Delhi accidentally made the snake problem worse — and Shariff argues we've done something eerily simil…" 14:15 Shariff argues we should reward meaningful output, not effort for its own sake.
Social psychologist Azim Shariff examines 'effort moralization' — the universal human tendency to view hard workers as morally good — and argues that asking for effort rather than meaningful output creates perverse incentives, from bullshit jobs to workism culture. Originally aired in 2023.
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Elise Hu opens TED Talks Daily with a question that sounds simple but turns out to be deeply unsettling: does working hard make you a good person? Most of us would answer no without hesitation. But Azim Shariff — a social psychologist at the University of British Columbia who studies morality — has spent years running studies that reveal a stubborn gap between what we say we believe and how we actually judge people. [1] — Azim Shariff "People consistently rate harder workers as more moral, even when those workers produce identical results. This isn't a Western quirk: Shari…" 02:40 His research on what he calls 'effort moralization' suggests the connection between sweat and virtue runs far deeper than any one culture or religion — and that our automatic approval of hard work may be leading us somewhere we don't consciously endorse.
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The episode pauses for three sponsor segments. Apple Card promotes its titanium credit card offering unlimited daily cash back, available through the Wallet app on iPhone and issued by Goldman Sachs. Kohler pitches its Veil Smart Toilet — a design-forward fixture with touchscreen controls and customizable features — as the product of 150 years of engineering. Dell targets back-to-school shoppers with the XPS laptop starting at $699 (student pricing from $599), highlighting portability and processing power for multitasking.
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Shariff walks the audience through his signature study: Jeff, a medical scribe, has been made redundant by software but still has three years left on a guaranteed contract. He can either stay home and collect his salary, or keep going in and doing work that's already been automated. Half the study's participants heard Jeff chose to stay home; the other half heard he kept working. The results were striking: the Jeff who kept working was seen as less competent — a 'bit of a chump' — but also warmer, more trustworthy, and more moral. [1] — Azim Shariff "When a medical scribe's job is replaced by software, participants judged the Jeff who kept pointlessly working as warmer, more trustworthy,…" 03:45 He was judged to be a good person. The paradox is laid bare: effort disconnected from output still generates moral credit, and Shariff names this phenomenon effort moralization.
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To stress-test the finding, Shariff's team ran a second study featuring two widget makers who produced identical outputs but differed only in how much effort each expended. Once again, the harder worker was rated as more moral and the preferred cooperation partner — even though he was also seen as less competent. Then the team crossed cultural lines: the result replicated in South Korea, one of the hardest-working OECD nations, and in France, known for rather different attitudes toward labor. Most strikingly, the Hadza people — hunter-gatherers in Tanzania with no connection to capitalism or Protestant tradition — named generosity and hard work as the only two qualities they agreed defined good character. [1] — Azim Shariff "The Hadza people of Tanzania, hunter-gatherers untouched by capitalist work norms, agree on only two qualities of good character: generosit…" 06:48 The evidence mounts that effort moralization is not a cultural quirk but something far more ancient and universal.
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At the individual level, effort moralization makes perfect sense. Evolutionary psychologists describe 'partner choice' — the constant human evaluation of who will make the best ally, collaborator, or companion. Someone willing to wake up every morning for a grueling run they clearly despise is signaling something important: they won't slack off. Shariff illustrates this through his colleague Paul, a man of impeccable taste who runs every morning in what Shariff describes as an 'inelegant hobble' of apparent agony. [1] — Azim Shariff "The drive to find the best cooperation partners is as old as humanity itself. A person willing to suffer through a painful morning run ever…" 07:30 Seeing Paul struggle, rather than stride, was what cemented Shariff's trust in him. Paul became not just a friend but a research collaborator. The heuristic is simple and potent: hard workers are good people. And it explains why you'd donate to a friend running a marathon for charity before you'd give to one watching a TV marathon for the same cause.
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The same instinct that makes us trust Paul the grimacing runner creates serious distortions when it shapes entire organizations and cultures. Shariff cites anthropologist David Graeber's observation that capitalism should theoretically root out pointless work — yet 'bullshit jobs,' roles that even their holders see as meaningless, proliferate. Why? Because workism, journalist Derek Thompson's term for the fusion of work with identity and self-actualization, fills the gap. [1] — Azim Shariff "Workism turns employment into identity and self-actualization. The problem isn't that some people find meaning in work — it's that the cult…" 10:18 Workism turns not just effort but the appearance of effort into a moral performance. And crucially, what makes it a culture is that everyone gets forced to participate — not just those who find genuine meaning in their work. This sets the stage for the arms races Shariff describes: office workers arriving earlier and earlier, each trying to out-signal the other's industriousness, until the whole culture is punishing people for anything less than total devotion.
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Shariff turns the lens on his own lab with a story that lands with uncomfortable precision. Because being a professor let him keep adolescent sleep habits well into his 30s, he sent emails at all hours of the night. A graduate student noticed — and, rather than actually working those hours, used a scheduling app to make his replies appear at 1–2 AM, manufacturing the impression of round-the-clock industriousness. [1] — Azim Shariff "A graduate student used an app to delay his emails to arrive at 1–2 AM, mimicking his professor's insomniac schedule to appear more industr…" 12:34 Shariff had sent entirely the wrong cultural signal, and his student's response was rational within that culture: perform effort rather than produce work. Shariff calls it 'literally bullshit work.' He had to actively rebuild his lab's culture around actual output. He also names the broader cultural phenomenon as 'effort porn' — the tendency to admire visible struggle for its own sake. Even he admits you can't simply learn to resist this bias; it's too deeply ingrained. But you can learn to notice it, and notice when it's making your decisions for you.
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The talk's climax arrives with a story that is almost certainly apocryphal but devastatingly apt. Desperate to solve a cobra infestation in colonial Delhi, British authorities offered a bounty for every dead snake brought in. Enterprising locals began breeding cobras specifically to collect the reward. When the scheme was finally cancelled, the breeders released their stock into the city — making the cobra problem catastrophically worse. [1] — Azim Shariff "A bounty for dead cobras in colonial Delhi accidentally made the snake problem worse — and Shariff argues we've done something eerily simil…" 14:15 Shariff draws the explicit parallel: we've built a culture that asks for the wrong thing. By rewarding effort rather than meaning — by demanding the imperfect signal rather than the actual outcome — we've created a world full of hard labor and cobras. The corrective is the episode's most memorable line: if instead we asked each other to produce something meaningful, we'd create a world full of meaning. And what, Shariff asks, could be more moral than that?
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Elise Hu returns to close the episode, identifying the talk as Azim Shariff's presentation at TED@Destination Canada in 2023, originally published that May. She directs listeners to ted.com/curationguidelines for transparency about TED's editorial process, then credits the production team: Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Lucy Little, Emma Taubner, Tansyka Sungmarnival, and additional contributors. She signs off with a promise of a fresh idea the following day.
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The episode's final segment is a trio of post-roll ads. Capital One promotes fee-free checking and the convenience of its café network. Progressive Insurance pitches bundled home and auto savings. Aura — the most detailed of the three — positions itself as a comprehensive digital safety platform that removes personal data from broker sites, monitors the dark web, and bundles a VPN, antivirus, password manager, spam-call protection, and identity theft insurance of up to $5 million into a single subscription at the price competitors charge for just one of those services alone.
- Effort moralization
- The psychological tendency to view people who work hard as morally virtuous, regardless of what that effort actually produces.
- Partner choice
- The evolutionary psychology concept describing how individuals evaluate and select the best cooperation partners, not just romantic ones, based on observable traits like industriousness.
- Workism
- Journalist Derek Thompson's term for the cultural phenomenon in which one's job becomes the primary source of identity and self-actualization, not merely income.
- Bullshit jobs
- Anthropologist David Graeber's term for jobs that even the people performing them perceive as pointless and of no meaningful societal value.
- Cobra effect
- A perverse incentive phenomenon where an attempted solution to a problem inadvertently makes it worse, named after the apocryphal colonial Delhi cobra-bounty story.
- Effort porn
- Azim Shariff's coined phrase for the cultural admiration of visible displays of hard work and struggle for their own sake, irrespective of meaningful output.
- Apocryphal
- Of doubtful authenticity, though widely circulated as true; Shariff uses it to flag that the cobra bounty story may be a legend rather than verified history.
- OECD
- Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development — an international body of 38 primarily wealthy nations that tracks economic and labor statistics, used here to contextualize South Korea's work hours.
- Heuristic
- A mental shortcut or rule of thumb used to make quick judgments; here, 'people who work hard are good' is the heuristic Shariff identifies.
- Protestant work ethic
- A concept from sociologist Max Weber linking Protestant religious values to a cultural emphasis on hard work, discipline, and frugality as moral goods.
- Perverse incentive
- An incentive that produces an unintended and counterproductive result, the opposite of what was intended by the policy designer.
- Self-actualization
- The realization of one's fullest potential, the highest level of Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs; used here in the context of work becoming a vehicle for personal fulfillment.
- Type A personality
- A personality pattern characterized by ambition, competitiveness, and urgency; colloquially used to describe high-achievers who thrive on productivity.
- Apocryphal
- Of questionable authenticity; Shariff uses it to acknowledge that the cobra effect story, while illustrative, may not be historically verified.
- Inelegant
- Lacking grace or refinement; Shariff uses it to describe his colleague Paul's physically ungainly running style, making the point that effort, not elegance, signals moral worth.
Chapter 2 · 01:10
Sponsor Break
The episode pauses for three sponsor segments. Apple Card promotes its titanium credit card offering unlimited daily cash back, available through the Wallet app on iPhone and issued by Goldman Sachs. Kohler pitches its Veil Smart Toilet — a design-forward fixture with touchscreen controls and customizable features — as the product of 150 years of engineering. Dell targets back-to-school shoppers with the XPS laptop starting at $699 (student pricing from $599), highlighting portability and processing power for multitasking.
Claims made here
People consistently rate harder workers as more moral, even when those workers produce identical results. This isn't a Western quirk: Shariff's research replicates across the US, South Korea, France, and the Hadza people of Tanzania.
When a medical scribe's job is replaced by software, participants judged the Jeff who kept pointlessly working as warmer, more trustworthy, and more moral — even though he produced nothing extra. He also seemed like a bit of a chump.
In Azim Shariff's experiment, participants rated a medical scribe who kept working pointlessly as warmer and more moral than one who stayed home, despite identical output.
Chapter 3 · 03:50
The Jeff Experiment: Effort Without Output Still Earns Moral Credit
Shariff walks the audience through his signature study: Jeff, a medical scribe, has been made redundant by software but still has three years left on a guaranteed contract. He can either stay home and collect his salary, or keep going in and doing work that's already been automated. Half the study's participants heard Jeff chose to stay home; the other half heard he kept working. The results were striking: the Jeff who kept working was seen as less competent — a 'bit of a chump' — but also warmer, more trustworthy, and more moral. [1] — Azim Shariff "When a medical scribe's job is replaced by software, participants judged the Jeff who kept pointlessly working as warmer, more trustworthy,…" 03:45 He was judged to be a good person. The paradox is laid bare: effort disconnected from output still generates moral credit, and Shariff names this phenomenon effort moralization.
Claims made here
Two widget makers producing identical outputs were rated differently by participants: the one who exerted more effort was seen as more moral and a better cooperation partner despite being judged less competent.
The effort moralization finding replicated in the United States, South Korea, and France.
When two widget makers produced identical results, participants rated the one who struggled more as more moral and the preferred cooperation partner, even though he was seen as less competent.
Effort moralization appears to predate and transcend the Protestant work ethic, suggesting it is a deeply evolved human tendency rather than a culturally specific belief.
Shariff's effort moralization finding replicated across the US, South Korea — one of the hardest-working OECD countries — and France, suggesting the bias transcends cultural work norms.
Chapter 4 · 06:10
Replicating the Finding: Widget Makers, South Korea, France, and the Hadza
To stress-test the finding, Shariff's team ran a second study featuring two widget makers who produced identical outputs but differed only in how much effort each expended. Once again, the harder worker was rated as more moral and the preferred cooperation partner — even though he was also seen as less competent. Then the team crossed cultural lines: the result replicated in South Korea, one of the hardest-working OECD nations, and in France, known for rather different attitudes toward labor. Most strikingly, the Hadza people — hunter-gatherers in Tanzania with no connection to capitalism or Protestant tradition — named generosity and hard work as the only two qualities they agreed defined good character. [1] — Azim Shariff "The Hadza people of Tanzania, hunter-gatherers untouched by capitalist work norms, agree on only two qualities of good character: generosit…" 06:48 The evidence mounts that effort moralization is not a cultural quirk but something far more ancient and universal.
Claims made here
South Korea is one of the hardest-working countries in the OECD by numerical measures.
The Hadza people of Tanzania, when asked about qualities contributing to good character, agreed on only two: generosity and hard work.
The Hadza people of Tanzania, hunter-gatherers untouched by capitalist work norms, agree on only two qualities of good character: generosity and hard work. This points to effort moralization as a deep evolutionary instinct, not a cultural quirk.
Even the Hadza people of Tanzania — hunter-gatherers with no connection to capitalist work culture — agreed that generosity and hard work are the two key qualities of good character.
Chapter 5 · 07:30
Why We Value Effort: The Evolutionary Logic of Partner Choice
At the individual level, effort moralization makes perfect sense. Evolutionary psychologists describe 'partner choice' — the constant human evaluation of who will make the best ally, collaborator, or companion. Someone willing to wake up every morning for a grueling run they clearly despise is signaling something important: they won't slack off. Shariff illustrates this through his colleague Paul, a man of impeccable taste who runs every morning in what Shariff describes as an 'inelegant hobble' of apparent agony. [1] — Azim Shariff "The drive to find the best cooperation partners is as old as humanity itself. A person willing to suffer through a painful morning run ever…" 07:30 Seeing Paul struggle, rather than stride, was what cemented Shariff's trust in him. Paul became not just a friend but a research collaborator. The heuristic is simple and potent: hard workers are good people. And it explains why you'd donate to a friend running a marathon for charity before you'd give to one watching a TV marathon for the same cause.
Claims made here
People are more likely to donate to a friend pledging to run a marathon for cancer research than one pledging to watch a TV marathon for the same cause.
The drive to find the best cooperation partners is as old as humanity itself. A person willing to suffer through a painful morning run every day signals they won't slack off when you need them — and that's exactly why effort reads as morality.
Evolutionary psychologists describe 'partner choice' — the drive to select and be the best cooperation partner — as the evolutionary root of why effort signals moral worth.
People are more likely to donate to a friend pledging to run a marathon for charity than one pledging to watch a TV marathon for the same cause, illustrating effort moralization in action.
Chapter 6 · 10:00
When Individual Instincts Become Societal Problems: Bullshit Jobs and Workism
The same instinct that makes us trust Paul the grimacing runner creates serious distortions when it shapes entire organizations and cultures. Shariff cites anthropologist David Graeber's observation that capitalism should theoretically root out pointless work — yet 'bullshit jobs,' roles that even their holders see as meaningless, proliferate. Why? Because workism, journalist Derek Thompson's term for the fusion of work with identity and self-actualization, fills the gap. [1] — Azim Shariff "Workism turns employment into identity and self-actualization. The problem isn't that some people find meaning in work — it's that the cult…" 10:18 Workism turns not just effort but the appearance of effort into a moral performance. And crucially, what makes it a culture is that everyone gets forced to participate — not just those who find genuine meaning in their work. This sets the stage for the arms races Shariff describes: office workers arriving earlier and earlier, each trying to out-signal the other's industriousness, until the whole culture is punishing people for anything less than total devotion.
Claims made here
Anthropologist David Graeber argued that capitalism should logically root out pointless jobs, but does not, because workism culture sustains them.
Derek Thompson coined the concept of 'workism' — the idea that work functions as the primary source of identity and self-actualization, not just income.
Workism turns employment into identity and self-actualization. The problem isn't that some people find meaning in work — it's that the culture coerces everyone to perform that meaning, regardless of what they're actually producing.
Anthropologist David Graeber noted that capitalism should root out pointless jobs, but workism — the fusion of identity and employment — sustains them.
Journalist Derek Thompson's concept of 'workism' describes how work becomes not just a paycheck but a source of identity and self-actualization — a culture everyone is forced to participate in.
Two colleagues compete to be first in the parking lot, arriving earlier and earlier until everyone else looks like a slacker. The culture rewards the performance of effort, not the output — and drags the whole workplace into performative busyness.
Competitive effort signaling between colleagues creates arms races where workers arrive earlier and earlier to signal industriousness, regardless of actual productivity.
Chapter 7 · 12:00
Effort Theater: The Fake Late-Night Emails and 'Effort Porn'
Shariff turns the lens on his own lab with a story that lands with uncomfortable precision. Because being a professor let him keep adolescent sleep habits well into his 30s, he sent emails at all hours of the night. A graduate student noticed — and, rather than actually working those hours, used a scheduling app to make his replies appear at 1–2 AM, manufacturing the impression of round-the-clock industriousness. [1] — Azim Shariff "A graduate student used an app to delay his emails to arrive at 1–2 AM, mimicking his professor's insomniac schedule to appear more industr…" 12:34 Shariff had sent entirely the wrong cultural signal, and his student's response was rational within that culture: perform effort rather than produce work. Shariff calls it 'literally bullshit work.' He had to actively rebuild his lab's culture around actual output. He also names the broader cultural phenomenon as 'effort porn' — the tendency to admire visible struggle for its own sake. Even he admits you can't simply learn to resist this bias; it's too deeply ingrained. But you can learn to notice it, and notice when it's making your decisions for you.
Claims made here
A graduate student used a scheduling app to make his emails appear sent at 1–2 AM to mimic his professor's work schedule and signal greater industriousness.
Psychological biases can be deeply ingrained and often cannot be unlearned, but awareness of them allows people to account for them in decision-making.
The British colonial cobra bounty in Delhi backfired because Indians began breeding cobras to collect the bounty, and the cobra population worsened when the program ended.
A graduate student used an app to delay his emails to arrive at 1–2 AM, mimicking his professor's insomniac schedule to appear more industrious. His professor had to actively dismantle his lab's culture of effort performance.
A graduate student used an app to schedule emails to appear sent at 1–2 AM to signal he was working all hours, exemplifying performative effort — 'literally bullshit work.'
You probably can't unlearn the mental circuit that links effort to morality. But awareness is enough: notice the bias, and you can stop it from running your important decisions on autopilot.
British colonists in Delhi offered a bounty for cobra skins to reduce snake populations, but Indians began breeding cobras to collect the reward — the classic 'cobra effect' of perverse incentives.
A bounty for dead cobras in colonial Delhi accidentally made the snake problem worse — and Shariff argues we've done something eerily similar with work culture. By rewarding effort rather than meaning, we've flooded the world with performative labor.
Chapter 8 · 14:20
The Cobra Effect: A Parable for Modern Work Culture
The talk's climax arrives with a story that is almost certainly apocryphal but devastatingly apt. Desperate to solve a cobra infestation in colonial Delhi, British authorities offered a bounty for every dead snake brought in. Enterprising locals began breeding cobras specifically to collect the reward. When the scheme was finally cancelled, the breeders released their stock into the city — making the cobra problem catastrophically worse. [1] — Azim Shariff "A bounty for dead cobras in colonial Delhi accidentally made the snake problem worse — and Shariff argues we've done something eerily simil…" 14:15 Shariff draws the explicit parallel: we've built a culture that asks for the wrong thing. By rewarding effort rather than meaning — by demanding the imperfect signal rather than the actual outcome — we've created a world full of hard labor and cobras. The corrective is the episode's most memorable line: if instead we asked each other to produce something meaningful, we'd create a world full of meaning. And what, Shariff asks, could be more moral than that?
If we keep asking each other for effort, we'll get a world full of hard labor and cobras. If we ask for meaning instead, we build a world that actually matters. This is the simplest and most radical shift Shariff proposes.
No indexed bits in this chapter.
Show stoppers
Snapshots ()
Key Quotes ()
This episode
Cast
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Anthropologist cited by Shariff for coining the concept of 'bullshit jobs' to describe work perceived as pointless even by those doing it.
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Journalist cited by Shariff as the originator of the concept of 'workism' — the idea that work becomes identity and self-actualization.
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The organization that hosted Azim Shariff's original talk at TED@Destination Canada in 2023 and produces the TED Talks Daily podcast.
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Episode sponsor offering comprehensive digital protection including data broker removal, VPN, antivirus, dark web monitoring, and identity theft insurance.
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Hunter-gatherer people of Tanzania whose agreement that hard work constitutes good character is cited as evidence of effort moralization's evolutionary roots.
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International economic organization referenced when describing South Korea as one of the hardest-working member countries.
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The institution where Azim Shariff is a psychology professor studying morality, mentioned as his academic affiliation.
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Sponsor of the episode — a titanium credit card by Apple offering unlimited daily cash back, issued by Goldman Sachs Bank.
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Colonial-era Delhi is the setting for the apocryphal cobra-bounty story used by Shariff to illustrate perverse incentives in work culture.
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One of the countries where Shariff replicated the effort moralization finding, noted for 'other strengths' relative to South Korea's work-hour reputation.
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Described as one of the hardest-working countries in the OECD and one of the countries where Shariff replicated the effort moralization finding.
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Home of the Hadza people, cited as an example of a culture outside capitalist norms that still exhibits effort moralization.
Stats
This episode
Claims & Sources
Factual claims made this episode, and whether a source was named.
People who saw a hypothetical worker continue doing a job already replaced by software rated him as warmer and more moral, even though he added no extra value.
Two widget makers producing identical outputs were rated differently by participants: the one who exerted more effort was seen as more moral and a better cooperation partner despite being judged less competent.
The effort moralization finding replicated in the United States, South Korea, and France.
South Korea is one of the hardest-working countries in the OECD by numerical measures.
The Hadza people of Tanzania, when asked about qualities contributing to good character, agreed on only two: generosity and hard work.
People are more likely to donate to a friend pledging to run a marathon for cancer research than one pledging to watch a TV marathon for the same cause.
A graduate student used a scheduling app to make his emails appear sent at 1–2 AM to mimic his professor's work schedule and signal greater industriousness.
Anthropologist David Graeber argued that capitalism should logically root out pointless jobs, but does not, because workism culture sustains them.
Derek Thompson coined the concept of 'workism' — the idea that work functions as the primary source of identity and self-actualization, not just income.
The British colonial cobra bounty in Delhi backfired because Indians began breeding cobras to collect the bounty, and the cobra population worsened when the program ended.
Psychological biases can be deeply ingrained and often cannot be unlearned, but awareness of them allows people to account for them in decision-making.